Duelyst Forums

Unearthed Prophecy: Magmar part 2

Game-play for Apex Starhorn and Gramps:


Splice S Rank

http://www.bagoum.com/deckbuilder#MTo0MDEsMzoyMDExMiwzOjExMDg4LDM6NDA5LDM6MTAwMTIsMzo0MjgsMzoyMDExNywzOjIwMjE4LDM6NDMzLDM6MjAxMjIsMjoxMTAzMCwzOjExMDc3LDM6MTExMDcsMzo0MDUsMTo0MzY=

Long description of deck.

A proper Vaath Smash deck. I named Splice because Magmar is all about genetic perfect, evolution, and all that stuff, combined with the fact that it is simultaneously aggressive and control. While it focuses on controlling the field it gets pretty aggressive with Vaath himself usually going face with him once he has three or more attack while your spells and minions control the board.

An update to my previous top 10 deck from ancient bonds, its gotten quite the overall, but has yet again proved to be another top tier deck.

While the core of the deck remains the same with the basic golem package and the Crypto/Drogon combo I shifted its curve up a bit and included some really cool new tech.

So lets talk about the new tech, the biggest one is Magesworn. Man this card is incredible for Vaath, it completely shuts down Vanar since all there removal is below the threshold, and it makes ghost seraphims effect read ā€œyou cant cast spells,ā€ it completely shuts down the incredibly toxic gates/mantra songhai decks, although they usually have panda to deal with it but it can buy you a ton of time, it also shuts down Cassyva pretty hard to. It can just strait up win the game when rampped out and placed safely in the back vs those factions, and its a fairly easy replace vs the rest. It also shuts down BBs, which is especially cool with Vaath since just a single cast of your BBs before it comes down can provide a ton of value, unlike most that need to be spammed to be effective. While it may seem a bit counter productive with the Drogon combo, its not really an issue because the times you play magesworn, it pretty much wins the game for you, and you just don’t play it the rest of the time.

The next big card tech card is Sunset paragon which is a phenomenal and underplayed card, it provides us with an effective counter to mechazor that magmar usually lacks, dispel just doesn’t really cut it since all the mech players run repositoners, and gives us even more aoe which is extra important with Azure Summoning vet hanging around. And finaly the new grandmaster as a one of, 9 mana is a little expensive, but between flash, kujata, and the decks ability to drag the game out its a win condition all by its self.

Drogars effect is indeed exponential, Drogar+Cryptographer lets you go from 3 attack to a whopping 18. Even if you only have a single drogar and no cryptographer, combining it with a late game Vaath makes him just an absolute monster. Add ramp into this mix and you can pull off some silly things real quick.

So besides the tech cards we have the usual magmar staples, leaving us with a deck that has incredible removal for midrange/slow decks, aoe for swarm, azure, and walls, healing/shields to shut down aggro, magesworns ability to shut down entire archetypes while barely bothering you, and the ability to end games quickly and or suddenly with drogon, a high curve to obviate the need for draw power, and a powerful late game with Vaath and big minions.

Its an extremely powerful deck with an answer for everything and no particularly bad match up, while being the bad match up for a lot of the top tier decks. Its only downside is it tends to be a fairly reactive deck supplying few threats of its own other then Vaath himself, so when you cant find the right answers for the right match up it can be a tough game.

Edits:
I decided to opt out of natural selection and the golem package in favor of Grove Lion and Tiger/Thumping. I feel lion helps with survive-ability more then ragebinder, and tiger does natural selections job early on without conflicting with magesworn later on, and is a classic with thumping which also wont conflict with magesworn.


Novocaine Competitive: Midrange/Pain combos.

http://www.bagoum.com/deckbuilder#MTo0MDEsMzoyMDExMiwzOjE5MDM4LDM6NDA5LDM6MjAxMjUsMzo0MzIsMzoxMDAxMiwzOjQxOSwzOjIwMTE3LDM6MTEwMjgsMzoyMDIxOCwzOjExMTE1LDM6NDMzLDM6NDA1

Long description of deck.

It got its name due to things in the deck being numb to all the self inflicted pain.

The self damaging ramp has fun synergy with taygete and sunsteel, While of course helping you drop early makantors or lavaslashers. Thumping wave is actually much more often used to hurt our own guys then with rush, its combo with taygete or thunderhorn are pretty devastating. Add that to your basic golem package and magmar staples and you have an effective mid-range deck with a surprising amount of AOE despite the lack of plasma.

It curves nicely throughout the game, and gets away without draw as It can win really fast, and as always Vaath by himself gives you a solid lategame. You tend to pull ahead early, and win if top decking does happen.


Predator: Apex, Competitive/Gimmicky

http://www.bagoum.com/deckbuilder#MTo0MTgsMzoyMDExMiwzOjE5MDM4LDM6NDA5LDM6MTEwMzksMzo0MzIsMzoxMDAxMiwzOjQzMywzOjIwMTIyLDM6MTExMDcsMzo0MDUsMzoyMDI5MiwzOjQzNCwzOjQzNg==

Long description of deck.

Initially I was incredibly skeptical of Apex, but I was very surprised at how effective it was. Its still ultimately a gimmick deck since there is always the chance your opponent can drop an even better field then you, but most of the time its just insane value.

So of course we have magmars powerhouse late game cards, juggernaught is also exceptionally good with ramp. Then instead of just focusing on ramping minions we ramp Apex as well with spell reducing minions. Starhorn keeps our hand topped off despite tossing out some early game stuff, and helps us dig for apex.

We have the basic golem package with three ways to get out turn two lavalashers, which also provides a touch of healing, ragebinders bond effect even works with apex.

The deck is intentionally spell light since it wants mostly creatures for apex, and you don’t want to conflict with magesworn. Magesworn can also auto win you games vs certain match ups.

Edits:
Trading Manaforger For tiger. As much as I love the concept of a forged apex its just not really practical, tiger is great with apex and helps give us some more early game control that we need.


Impale: Competitive: Aggro

http://www.bagoum.com/deckbuilder#MTo0MTgsMzoyMDExMiwzOjIwMTE5LDM6MjAxMTYsMzoxOTA1MSwzOjQwOSwzOjQzMCwzOjEwMDEyLDM6MjAyMzQsMzo0MzcsMzoxMTA4NiwzOjQwNywzOjIwMjE4LDM6NDA1

Long description of deck.

I call it Impale because that’s exactly what it does to people with all of its horns and spikes.

Do you want to kill people fast? Do you like to just SMORC at face! Well I have the deck for you! The only thinking you need to do with the deck is when your comboing rancor or deci/spikes, rest of the time, just go face!

A very powerful and quick aggro deck, only one thing changed for it in the expansion, Teradon. Man he is an incredible buff target…can you believe he replaced Lavalasher!? Yea that’s right, this deck does not run lavalasher because he is way to slow and he doesn’t go face! That’s how quick this abomination is.


I have made it to S rank for many seasons now, with occasional top 50s when I had the time to play competitively. Since I have not had time to start streaming like I want, I figured I would just share some of my stuff each week and get my name out there so the community knows me a little better for when I do eventually get around to it. I have a lot of new stuff I plan to put out, and will get a new master thread up for the expansion when I can, in the mean time check out my previous thread:

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ITV: DA complains about Songhai ā€œnot playing Doolystā€, while he jams Magmar… Because Magmar totally plays the fair game.

For real though, cool content :slight_smile:

Everything magmar has actually uses the board, and can be countered with good positioning, provoke, and body blocking. Then there are are actually commonly played cards that just really punish everything that makes them strong like Mirage vs rush, thunderhorn and anything with 5 health+ vs lasher. There is of course Nightwatcher to. All of Vaaths big scary things revolve around him getting in your face which there is plenty of counterplay for.

Songhai…other then trying to tech heal…the match basically has nothing to do with you and as always comes down to their draws. You can do your best to box reva in and be careful with your health, save your removal for ideal targets and such…but ultimately its solotaire. Like if this was magic, or any game without a board focus songhai would probably be my main faction as they are so cool and I love their style, but no, here, in duelyst, they are disgusting.

Also I am an Abyss main, but I do like my Lizards. Thanks man! Sorry for getting all serious about what was probably mostly satire.

2 Likes

Hold on, just shot some carbonated beverage out of my nose. Each faction has unfair decks, but Magmar is the only faction built to be routinely unfair. Magmar’s out of hand burst damage does use the board (most of the time,) but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t out of hand mass burst, done in a timeframe which makes positioning pointless. How exactly, does one position against Tigers, Warbeasts and Lavaslashers? The answer, is usually to be setback as little as possible, but still setback nonetheless.

Vaath gets to absolutely bully the board from any position with rush minions, the best 2 mana removal in the game, the best ramp effect in the game, and a BBS that makes bodyblocking consistently a bad move.

Songhai is, by comparison, is red Vanar without all of the busted Walls. But positioning around the texture of their hand is no different than positioning against the texture of Magmar’s. They’re going to do alot of damage which can’t be stopped, and also undermines the positioning game (because that’s a powerful thing to do)- but so does Magmar. The only major difference, is that the Devs haven’t justified either Songhai BBS with the Dispel design crutch- so Songhai generals don’t just get to be parked wherever, knowing that they can reduce the overall amount of damage dealt to their general by outright eatting enemy minions.

I am serious, and I enjoy your conviction on the matter. Really enjoy these tough discussions- but wanted to make a point that the content is appreciated, even if the contrast with Songhai feels particularly unjust.

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Tiger is not actually magmars fault, Lyonar abuses tiger way more then Magmar, and thanks to phantasm so does abyss now. Rush can always be played around with good positioning and body blocking. Also what burst? Are you talking about the two card 7/8 mana combo that does 8/9 damage? Songhai can do that with a single card, and no amount of positioning, body blocking, or tech will do anything about it. Hell thumping is even getting cut from my lists lately because that tiny burst is just not that much now a days, every faction can do that amount of burst or more.

Or maybe your talking about Deci/Spikes…yea I am not a big fan of that…but again its a seven mana combo that is LINEAR you feed your opponent cards and take some of the damage your self, that’s at least fair.

Diagonal positioning, and body blocking, especially with your general, can go a really long way vs makantor and lasher…which are btw 5/6 mana cards, they should be strong, and they are one of the few things that keeps magmar competitive, every faction has powerful defining cards. I still take way more issue with Holy immolation then makantor, but I accept that its just Lyonars big card, and everyone deserves a couple of those. And thats before we even talk about Mirage, Nightwatcher, and Provoke. There just isn’t anything you can do about Songhai.

The only truly massive burst magmar can do is with drogon…and that is bloody hard to pull off since good players will not let Vaath get in melee range of their general when drogon starts to become a threat. Compare this to the utter BS of Eight Gates or Mantra combos, that there is not shit you can do about, short of Magesworn, that can do just as much burst as drogon with unlimited range and no prior conditions, and there is nothing you can do about it.

As much as people like to hate on Vanar, I have no issue with them. While powerful they don’t usually play a quick game, they give you plenty of time to react and out skill your opponent. Yes they are powerful, but because of that you need to build decks with them in mind, and as long as you do that they really are not an issue. Songhai on the other hand is quick and or toxic games and there just isnt much you can do about it. I always tech healing, I know how to play around their stuff, I know how to recognize that I need to get aggressive if they are playing combo…yet still its always just miserable card draw dependent, nonsense. They have unlimited range, unconditional, out of hand, burst and position changers.

I play every faction but Songhai, and take no issue with any of the others.

2 Likes

And Tiger is - and always was - a bad example because every faction has it. Songhai not playing Tiger always means they don’t have to play him because they have better tools.
But discussing this is another thread, or?
(Edit: Hups - same time post with @deathsadvocate. The one from him has more quality then mine - as always…:joy:)

3 Likes

From my experience, and i’ve been playing Drogon in my midrange deck since December when everybody else was fixated on Entropic gaze aggro, this isn’t really the case unless you make the mistake of showing your opponent that you are actually playing the combo. By playing the Cryptographer turn 1 for example. Last month for example i made my way from Rank 1 to S using my Midrange deck, i went 5-1 in that run and i think i won 3 of those games with a Drogon + Crypto kombokill from 18+ life. Nobody even tries to play around it unless you make it obvious.

Regarding Songhai, while i totally agree that Mantra, Artifact Reva and Eighgates builds are complete cancer i also have to point out that Songhai can actually be played in a fun manner. Even more so since UP. Midrange Kaleos is a really fun deck to play and i also enjoyed playing Arcanyst Reva this month. Both decks work very well and have a strong board focus. So yeah, Songhai can be disgusting, but they don’t have to. Same can be said for Magmar, Deci Spikes and Aggro Vaath versions chaining buffed up rush minions into your face aren’t really fun to play against either.

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I have found just playing cryptos early is usually a good plan, trying to hold onto the full combo until 8 mana or less with flash just doesn’t feel practical, people start avoiding melee with him once you have around 4+attack anyways. The surprise factor can certainly be a viable tactic, but I myself and have seen others start playing around a drogon lethal even when there is no sign of it. But unless I allready have drogon, crypto, and flash in hand I wont usually try to save early on.

I do just dislike aggro in general, regardless of faction.

@oranos

Think these Magmar lists might be what you were asking for.

nope, it was @epicflygon asking for these

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I guess I will use his lists… for the second time.

BTW on aggro starhorn, should I put 2 gazes over 2 elucidator?

Gaze is really not that good. Back when it did 4 damage it was amazing, I pretty much dont run it at all now.

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Crypto on T1 is my favourite opener. 3 Attack on T2/1 is just so good :slight_smile: I don’t care if they know I have Drogon. Some decks don’t include Drogon at all, only Crypto.

Gramps looks very interesting, I have some questions:
Aren’t 3 Drogons too much? I usually keep Drogon for the surprise lethal in hand and what I gathered from your comments you do so too so 3 seem to be a lot, doesn’t it?

Magesworn shuts practically down 12 cards in that deck. Is it so good in the right matchup that that is okay and you play Drogon only for its stats anymore?

It really is worth it, and its easy enough to kill it off or plasma it if you want to go in for the drogon finisher. But the times you want to play it rather then replace, it can really win a game by its self. Replace mechanic really makes it worth it.

I also frequently just use drogon to do 8+ damage bursts early on, he is the backbone of the deck.

Songhai would literally not work in any other game. Their focus is on expending resources to ignore/abuse the board. I find that playing against Songhai is like babysitting a pyromaniac toddler. They'll keep setting things on fire, and you'll keep putting them out, but one is bound to stick at some point. Your only hope is to finish the game before that happens, and remove the threats. The Songhai matchup, I find, is one of the more complicated ones for any list. I could gush for hours about the Decihorn - Minmaxerhai matchup. Whoops got carried away on that point.

Haha no. If you’ve ever played a modern Reva list you’d realize that it is NOT solitaire in the sense that answers are clear cut. Playing Minmaxerhai actually requires a lot of skill and creativity. That list frequently hands you cards from other decks, and you have to cobble synergies together in the space of around 3 minutes. Not to mention the intricacies of casting Juxtaposition.

Well whaddya know you got me ranting. Here’s the long and short. Songhai is sophisticated and so are its players. ļ½„ļ½‰ļ½Žļ½‡ ļ½„ļ½ļ½Žļ½‡ ļ½™ļ½ļ½•ļ½’ ļ½ļ½ļ½‰ļ½Žļ½‰ļ½ļ½Ž is ļ½—ļ½’ļ½ļ½Žļ½‡

Never once did I say that playing songhai did not require skill. BUT its still one sided solitaire that has little to do with your opponent. Yes executing your own nonsense requires a ton of practice…its still uncounterable, out of hand, unlimited range, unconditional, burst/position changes that doesn’t use the board which goes against the very fundamentals of what duelyst is about.

Well so does any good deck. That’s the point of any competitive anything really, to avoid interaction with your opponent. The goal is to skew the fight in your favor as much as possible.

Also I repeat: SONGHAI INTERACTS WITH THE BOARD. THEY WOULD NOT FUNCTION WITHOUT IT. THEIR IDENTITY IS BASED ON SPENDING RESOURCES TO IGNORE THE BOARD. Rush exists in other games. Teleportation is a dooly exclusive experience.

Right there…that’s the problem. Duelyst is about the board.

Songhai is a faction built around avoiding interaction, everything else uses the board and has counters. Rush exists in other games, and has never been a problem, and its even less so here thanks to the board, although neutral rush is usually a bad idea.

If all of their teleports were like Kals BBS with very limited range but compensated by being cheaper, cycling, targeting anything, or buffing they would be awesome. But as it is, its toxic, especially when combined with the other issues I have mentioned.

Songhai has so much potential to be awesome and still retain most of their identity with a good rework…but I have pretty much lost hope that it will happen.

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73% winrate (15-4) with Novocaine (and 3 wins that hit a snag not being in the statistic) from silver to gold.

I don’t tell this because I’m a poser but to give some respect to the creator of the decks above and push the thread for all the Magmar freaks out there.

I’m pretty shure a less optimized deck would have had a good winrate, too - now at the end of the season and at this rank. But for the grind I wanted to get shure playing high quality - and that’s what @deathsadvocate’s decklists stands for.

If I get into the game with more passion again next season - and that’s what I plan to - I think I’ll try some more Abyssian and more Starhorn (who I normally don’t play that much).

Thanx for your decks - again!

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