bro, i feel you
i’ve never gotten to gold either
A simple question
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You both could probably reach gold. Sometimes the difference between someone hitting a higher division or not, can be due to the lack of time.
To answer the opening post, there are a decent number of lower/newer players in the game. It’s harder to notice them nowadays because the vast majority don’t come to the forums or the discord meltdown league server. Which is pretty much the only Duelyst places I visit outside the game. Before the in-game streamer watch tab broke, new players would sometimes wander into Twitch streams as well on a somewhat regular basis. While most players with recongiseable names tend to be players who have played for a long time (years).
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that’s probably true
i’ve been playing a lot more recently and im currently at silver 12
i might get to gold but only if i get good match ups and good draws
EDIT: just reached gold 
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Way back in 2015, Ramp Abyssian was a force to be reckoned with. It had access to 2 mana Sarlac, and a 2/4 Lady Locke during the 2 draw period. Sarlac with 2 draw eliminates the downside of Abyssian’s sacrifice spells, and you could Ramp things like the then 7/9 Archon Spellbinder, which was the premium 6 drop at the time.
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@jaundice @luckybob
I wanna try and see if I can help you guys get there if you’re up for it.
I could watch discord and help you with your moves and see if we can get a winstreak going.
You guys got time to try? if so PM me for discord.
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Btw here’s the perfect case of why Magmar is broken
https://play.duelyst.com/replay?replayId=-Lz74cjPHBAcH7iUWwMX
I keep saying it over and over. If Magmar wants to retain all of their healing + board clear they should be stripped of their end game bullshit.
Rebuke, Slasher, Plasma Storm, Makantor should be used for aggression not stalling the game just so you can play a stupid card. Magmar shouldn’t be playing the control game… ever… in any match up… or else all of their otherwise semi-fair cards become nonsensically broken.
The pressure should be on them to close the gap and kill me before I get to my end game not on me to kill them before theirs. I should have the option of kiting them.
All I’m saying.
Edit: And that’s why we need Fault + Kha and that’s why Vanar needs Fault + Kha.
Edit 2: https://play.duelyst.com/replay?replayId=-Lz7H1Hf0FuYRMykDxRO
Round 2 against Fault. Not a polorizing faction btw that auto wins against some match ups and autoloses against others. Man I love going into a game and knowing the result before the game has started. Real fun.
At least fault + kha bullies other bullies like Wanderer or Vaath or other Magmar nonesense and loses to normal aggro stuff or a well excuted control deck with lightbender in it.
Who does Vaath bully? Swarm Lilithe? Swarm Brome? Vespyrs? Archetypes that are already struggling and are in the dirt and would be perfectly balanced without him? Oh please.
“But we need him to keep Ragnora in check!”
Well I didn’t say remove Vaath did I? I said remove the entirety of Magmar. Then we don’t need their stupid shit to keep their other stupid shit in check and the rest of the game can be balanced properly.
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Man, I’ve been trying to avoid engaging, but I feel like your arguments are getting increasingly nonsensical.
But these types of cards are precisely designed for control decks! It’s impossible to use a sweeper like Plasma Storm “aggressively” since the card does nothing to advance your own board state; its sole purpose is to reset the board and progress things towards the later game. Indeed, Magmar having these cards means that it’s one of the only places it’s even possible to build around big expensive cards like Apex. No one’s requiring you to like the deck, but even after reading what you’ve written, I still have no idea why you feel so strongly that it shouldn’t even exist.
Classically Vaath also serves as a check on Aggro Zir’an, which is most definitely a top-tier deck that could use some counterbalancing influences.
On the other hand, Vaath isn’t too great at this since the Rebirth minions are difficult for him to remove cleanly. While Overload does make it more difficult to get Egg comboed to death, I still think Ragnora has the edge in the matchup.
Edit: I want to strike a positive tone here, though, so here’s some sincere advice. You’ve said you want a game without “infinite value cards”, a game in which big vanilla beatsticks are good cards, a game in which you are guaranteed to be able to play to the board. The bad news is that as far as I know, there is no card game with a constructed mode like this. However, there is a type of format in many games (including here) that comes a lot closer to your ideal: Limited! In Duelyst, it’s called Gauntlet, and it has everything you’re looking for. New players are always welcome!
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And guess what?
You can just nerf Aggro Ziran and tone her down to the level of other balanced decks.
But with Vaath in the game, if you do that she will only struggle more against Vaath.
This is what I mean when I say if we want a balanced game, the first step is getting rid of Magmar. Then it frees up space to nerf a lot of other things that he’s supposed to “keep in check”
It does! It clears the board so you can move forward and hit them in the face with your 1 million damage general.
Magmar can’t have it all. They can’t have one of the most aggressive playstyles that can otk you on turn 3 with Drogon and win later on with Finality anyways if they are too incompetent to do so.
They can’t have big beefy huge aggressive minions that slap you in the face and win the end game anyways.
When I play Burn Faie, if I can’t kill them by 6 Mana I lose. There’s no point in playing anymore. If I play Vaath, it is easier and more rewarding early on, and has a cohesive end game plan. Ridiculous.
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Once upon a time Magmar was THE control faction.
Now after many years later Magmar is being complained because you can play control decks with Magmar 
.
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Referring back to the title and “simple questions”, why is Vaath allowed to be helpless against fault, but Faie isn’t allowed to be helpless against Vaath?
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Because Faie doesn’t hard counter anything. If you don’t hard counter anything you don’t deserve to be hard countered by anything.
Vaath on the other hand autowins against certain match ups. He’s just a big bully. He deserves to autolose against certain other match ups.
Bullying a bunch of otherwise balanced deck makes no sense to me. Bullying a bully like fault does to vaath or wanderer is more than ok with me.
Also no. Vanar is the control faction. Making it to the end game with Vanar, considering understatted early game minions, the lack of healing and limited AOE removal and card draw, takes skill; all of them big problems that get intensified the more the game goes on. You are the underdog in every way possible early on. You have limited card draw which means throughout all of this you have to maintain handsize while ramping and dodging all of their threats and looking for your Walls combo. You deserve to Winterswake them if you make it to the end game despite all the odds.
But as magmar, it’s easy as cupcake. You shouldn’t be rewarded for sitting in a corner and spamming Eggs or healing + board clear. It’s either bad stats, no healing, limited AOE, no card draw with a strong end game like Winterswake decks. Or it’s good stats, high healing, good AOE and card draw but with an attack that fizzles out in the end game like Aggro Ziran. Magmar can’t have it all.
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idk dude. maybe there isnt just -one- control faction? it feels like a can of worms. it’ll be hard to see eye to eye with everyone as to what control means, much less in duelyst. it doesn’t help that a lot of decks can change gears from aggro like healnar or vaath. and tbh it’s not even worth talking about factions like it’s a single identity? dooly was designed more as a “General Identity”, and even then they blurred the line somewhere the 3rd gen generals release.
there’s also this:
i could practically replace walls with creep and vanar with abyssian and wake with obliterate. both decks can also go “fuck it i’ll drop 3 klaxons/embla and i win” . both factions have a shitton aggro variants too.
ps. obligatory “u cant fit everything in a 39-deck limit”. rag rly isnt a control. vaath’s only got 1 egg, and he sucks lightbender dick.
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By the same logic Lyonar is a top endgame faction cause it can unconditionaly remove much stuff and heal with Aperion. Or circle of life which removes AND heals simultaneously.
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Burn faie hard counters artifact Sajj …
Just throwing that out there.
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First of all, I would like it if you could quote me because I don’t know which logic you are referring to.
Second of all, removal is not a problem and will never be a problem. Removal on its own is inherently weak. It’s just a counter measure to all the ridiculous minions, buffs and effects that exist in the game.
Thirdly, unlike Magmar’s removal which actually is unconditional, those are all conditional and you can play around. Circle of Life? have two minions on the board on 5 Mana or a minion with more than 5 HP. Aperion’s Claim? Don’t position your minions next to each other in a 3x3 square.
How am I supposed to play around Plasma Storm if I keep drawing 3 attack or less minions when I need my Kron? I can’t.
How am I supposedd to play around Claim? That’s right I can! No matter what I draw or what deck I’m playing just by simply spacing my stuff out.
Btw it’s nice to mention that Claim and Circle of Life are objectively weaker than Plasma Storm and Rebuke while costing more mana.
Lyonar is very well designed. A faction that has an advantage early on with overstatted minions and provokes. They have lots of healing, board clear, the ability to play multi-card combos without having to worry about card draw thanks to Trinity Oath, to press the early advantage they have. However if they fail to press their advantage, their inititive fizzles out.
Vanar’s the exact opposite. Their minions have terrible stats which opens room for the opponent to aggress early on. After ever minion trade, yours die and theirs live forcing you to either clear them with your general causing you to take a lot of damage or simply retreat and lose footing. However if you manage to respond to the opponent’s threat properly and contain and control their aggression, you are at an advantage in the late game.
If I were to draw a graph, that’s what it’d look like for Lyonar and Vanar.
Meanwhile, as Magmar you have the TURN ONE agressively positioned 3/4 Rebirth!! A minion that can not be cleared with any 2/3 thanks to rebirth forcing your opponent back. You have all these ridiculous stats and healing and board clear allowing you to play as aggressively as you please. However if you get majorly outplayed somehow and they come up on top despite all of your advantages, you can just play the long game and win through your ridiculous end game minions and spells.
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This is the logic about the endgame. Zir’An is also perfectly capable of becoming 1 million damage general, even more so than Vaath.
Your graph, actually, shows the power level incorrectly, IMO. How is Excelsious so vastly inferior to Jug or Kraigon? Why is it much later than Jug? PeaceKeeper is actually not much worse.
Also, Evolutionary Apex is definitely strong, but one should bear in mind that Apex decks usually don’t run many spells, thus their only removal options are Slasher and Makantor making backline threats deadly. Apex decks don’t often get to the point of actually playing apex.
So, again, the comparison is in a vacuum. Comparing Young Silithar with Sunrise Cleric is also unfair if one aсcounts for the fact that cleric actually produces long lasting effect unlike Young Silithar.
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I made the graph in a hurry…
I forgot to put stuff like Silverguard Knight and Ironcliffe Guardian which is lyonar’s bread and butter in.
So yeah that’s why it’s not that accurate but I think it gets my point across.
Assume a neutral position. One side has Kraigon/Jugg. The other has Peacekeeper/Excelsious. Who wins?
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The one who’s turn it is.
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Actually nevermind the lyonar player still can’t win even if it’s their turn thanks to forcefield lol
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