There are a lot, this “theory” is total nonsense of course. It is just to meant to get some rise out of people.
Every evening 10-20 people on my friendslist are online, divided into all divisions 
A simple question
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True, but that was not the main point of my reply. Anyway, I believe you can’t disagree that nerfing was more prevalent than buffing at any time.
Just comparing the cards of two factions doesn’t make sense. In a vacuum yes, it seems like powercreep. But you don’t account for the other cards the faction has. Each faction is a holistic entity, comparison should be done using all resources the faction has.
For example, Vanar has Malicious Wisp which steals mana. No other faction has something like this. Vanar is OP?
For example, Abyssian has Shadow Sister. Lyonar has nothing like this, even though it has the most healing synergies. Is healing Abyssian better than Healyonar?
The first is barely played, the second is never played.
Why not?
Play chess. Cause
and there’s no such shit.
Couldn’t disagree more. For me, at least, building my decks is the most interesting part of the game. Don’t measure others by your own measure, different players consider different things to be “playing”.
Read above. Appealing to the different set of players, at least.
Thanks. How can one argue with that?
Play chess?
I think I accomplished something when I have all queens even before the match. It is strategy as opposed to tactics. Also good and clever, at least when I don’t netdeck my solution.
Please, don’t consider me to be your enemy @atrestia, I know, I’m not completely polite while arguing with you. The thing that makes me uncomfortable is your peremptory (I hope I used the correct word) assessment of anything in game. Deckbuilding is not a game. Every deck should be able to be beaten by full golem deck. All this just because you think it’s good.
I think not. What now?
And you didn’t properly answer my reply.
How can you argue that the devs always just buffed already solid factions? How much do you know about the history of Dooli? I don’t want it to look like I’m pressing you with my experience, my experience is shit. What your opinion is based on? What any of your opinions are based on except “I know what is right cause I know what is right” shit? Anyone wants Dooli to be a game perfectly suited for themselves, but a reasonable person should always remind himself that his opinion and feelings may differ from others.
Can you parry?
P.S. And it all started from the question about rank. I love you, @atrestia, you make forums more lively. No sarcasm.
P.P.S. As I assess the difference between us, I’m a combo player while you are midrange player. I’m happy when I find an underused combo which works one in five matches but is totally innovative and unexpected. You’re happy when you consistently win through clever positioning and board play. Don’t I have the right to exist in your world? I love unexpected OTK combos with no counterplay when I’m the one performing them. But I want to exist, bro!
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Malicious Wisp is certainly OP without a doubt.
In my opinion any “infinite value” card for a limited mana investment shouldn’t exist.
In my opinion all healing should be limited and capped (In every game). For example you shouldn’t be able to heal past 3 health maximum. If your general drops down to 15 HP you should only be able to heal up to 18 HP.
Healing is probably one of the worst mechanics in the history of gaming ever.
I don’t care. It’s more value than the mana cost compared to Stormmetal Golem therefore broken. I shouldn’t be forced to fill 75% of my deck with removal because answer or die cards exist. Why not get rid of both?
Because it’s not addressing the problem. It will inevitably lead to more problems down the line.
Everyone tells me Vaath existed to keep Ragnora in check and with him out of the meta Ragnora is seemingly unstoppable.
This wouldn’t have been a problem if instead of taking the “have there be counters for ragnora” route they had used the “nerf every ragnora card to the ground” method.
I do. Planning on quitting soon because this is tilting.
This is honestly really hard for me to wrap my head around.
You don’t have to be polite dude. It’s not like I am either. Love you too.
We can’t be enemies over disagreeing about a game lol
Then I’m happy you enjoy the game the way it is.
For me, the mana cost of a card should translate directly to its value and the result of the game shouldn’t depend on what cards were being played but on which tiles those cards were being played and how those minions were moved and how they were used to trade into other minions and all that other stuff. Having a standard to balance around (preferably golems) makes this a lot easier.
I don’t want to go into a game knowing the result before it has already started. I want to have a chance no matter what I’m playing otherwise it’s so boring.
I said it’s just something I’ve seen it happen in other games and the signs are all there that something similar also ruined this game leaving it in its current state.
I don’t. I’m a new player.
Making the game revolve around the decisions you make in the game rather than prematch deck building isn’t me trying to make the game suited for me. It’s me making it perfectly suited for the best player with the best decision making… you know during the actual game phase of the game lol
Again I have trouble wrapping my head around this. How can you like something but only when you’re the one performing it? It’s either good game design or bad game design what difference does it make who is playing it?
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You are absolutely right with that I just wanted to mention that they buffed cards. Mainly in the last patch though.
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Just to clear things up. Ragnora appeared in kinda the last expansion. Kinda. After that expansion game development was suspended. They just didn’t have enough time to properly address the issue.
If I was to analyze CPG balancing policy, it would probably be the following. Make plenty of OP cards -> look at who ends up at the top -> nerf it to the ground. So the top faction used to change after every balance patch/expansion. Now that we don’t have patches anymore the meta is stale. But Magmar wasn’t always at the top. As I already mentioned, we had metas where Vanar, Lyonar, Vet, Songhai (and, tbh, Magmar also) were totally dominating the ladder without any chance for the others. BTW, they were dominating even harder than Magmar is dominating now. I believe the only faction that never was at the top is Abyss. Maybe older players would correct me tho.
Now, do I approve of such policy? Of course not. It seems quite bizarre for me, tbh. But since I don’t have enough expertise to make the game of my dreams myself I’m mostly satisfied with Duelyst, at least in comparison with most other contenders. CPG gets my respect for making what I consider to be the best CCG in the market.
Now speaking of the deckbuilding phase. I want to explain myself. Coming up with a pretty special gameplan, assessing its weaknesses and trying to add cards that allow to follow it no matter what is very fun for me. I’m not speaking of the solo decks only, though I love them, too. I believe, best examples of my reasoning and deckbuilding priorities could be the following threads/decks if you’re interested in opening your eyes to another view on the game:
The deck itself doesn’t matter though, it is different now, the reasoning does. It’s not combo, btw, it’s full control.
Speaking of the combo side, here’s my precious:
https://duelspot.com/deck/consistent-frenzy/
So, to conclude in some way. I want to beat all the tryhard Wanderer Rags with something unexpected, humiliate them by beating their top tier deck with stupid shit. Ooooor I want the opponent to friend me after the match to tell me: “Wow, that was something, I’ve never seen smth like this! Lold hard.” Sadly, I’m a pretty shitty pilot, so it happens rarely, but I consider myself to be a pretty good deckbuilder in the sense that I make nonstandard decks that are playable in the right hands and also funny. I get my (un)rightful wins mostly by confusing the opposing player, making him wonder about my true gameplan until I stomp him with triple Abjudicator discounted buff + Baronette combo on the lone wraithling left on board when the opponent considers himself to be safe. It doesn’t usually work in higher ranks, that’s why I’m usually diamond 2-3 or smth.
So I consider myself to be a true Johny with almost no competetive feelings, while you’re probably Timmy/Spike if you know what this classification means:
Hope it explains something to you. Just wanted to describe what I love about the game. In my opinion, this is the main appeal of Duelyst - lots of combo potential. Shouldn’t it be present in the game in your opinion?
P.S. I also play meta decks tho from time to time. Wanderer Swarm Lilithe is probably the closest to the top tier I have, but I also play DW Maehv, Aggro Reva (rarely) when I’m completely tired of constant losses. Anyway, I try to insert something funny (read, combo) into these, too.
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Honestly looking back at some previous meta’s the state of Vanar at the time makes me cringe.
Take this for example: https://imgur.com/a/lljHv
That deck at the top for example just feels like it’s spamming board clears until the inevitable wall combo with arcanysts as a back up plan.
I’ve already expressed my distaste for walls. I hate I win combos. That deck sort of looks like how fault plays nowadays. Spam a swarm of minions (whether it’s golems or gravity wells) then clear their minions over and over until you inevitably press the I win button.
I’m a lot happier with Vespyrs and minions based strategies. Something about playing understatted minions and winning slowly through tribal synergy is really pleasing to me. Rather than winning through sheer brute force or a one turn combo that completely reverses the game state.
Anyways looking back at that deck I’m glad Vanar were nerfed but I wouldn’t nerf them the way they devs did. I’d let them keep their removal spells which made them consistent and just nerf walls by reducing the amount of walls each spell spawns by one and then totally remove winter’s wake and razorback. In fact I’d change the entire game limitting the amount of minions you can summon per turn. That would fix so many problems on it’s own.
Honestly I don’t really care much about winning as long as it’s a fair game. Most of the time I’m only playing duelyst when I’m in queue for other games anyways.
What you describe has happened to me on some occasions. Most of the time when I’m playing those decks I just feel a little disgusted with myself and if I win it’s even worse. The entire time I’m gonna be thinking “why?! how is this allowed to exist” so getting the friend request + compliment after the match makes me feel like I’m even more alone in this world lol
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I see your point. You’re not alone for sure, but those friend requests you’re talking about tell me that I’m not alone either
And yeah, I did also hate control Vanar of the time 
And you didn’t even see the shit of 3-mana enfeeble… It was 3-mana, can you imagine? And frostburn was 5. 8 mana unconditional boardclear with 2 cards. In a faction with ramp.
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I only reach S-Rank once, and never again since then.
Gold is good enough for me.
Also, lets enjoy the game while we still can, shall we?
What’s the point of arguing about balance if the developer said they won’t touch duelyst until Godfall finished? (that’s also could be a false hope).
WE ALL also at one point want at least a balance patch, or any news at this point, but that hope was long gone.
No matter how much we shouts, they already made a decision.
Even if somehow duelyst come back in development, how much it will impact the game revenue and how many new players would you expect to come? especially with previous reputation of abandoning the game.
The God has forsaken us, they cast DOOM upon this game (get it?) 
So lets just enjoy this game while it’s still live. 
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Fair enough. You’re right. I’ll stop whining.
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Until the next thread haha
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I know i said this as a joke.
But if somehow it’s true, we only have one year left until the DOOM effect resolved (since last patch). 
Assumed three turns is three years.
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Three Q4 contents.
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That’s a usual tactic in the market. I wonder if it is a good one but what do I know.
2/5 Kelaino made Creep Cass really strong back in 2016.
I also wonder where Creep was power wise before the mechanic was reworked. But haven’t played 2015 yet 
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I did, but it seemed to me it was solid but not top. Something more prominent was better. I don’t remember if it was Songhai or smth else.
Same with 2/5 Sister. Really solid, annoying as hell, but not top.
Really? I thought you were here even before me
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By accident I saw a tournament game Sibon vs JJPanda from Winter 2016 with 2/5 Kelaino, 7 mana Rev, 1 mana sphere. So many tools to delay the game But I wasn’t too deep in the meta back then, because I just began playing in October 2016. The Humble Bundle lured me to a despised F2P game and I stayed.
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Old creep felt so long ago. Almost forgotten about it. Creep damage being sum of creeps.
It was about a 7 or 8 mana Shadow Nova. First copy is not cost effective. Second or third copy hitting hard. Practically pretty late game strategy dependent on surviving long and draw luck.
Keliano days were fun… when playing Healonar against it 
.
People naturally want to win. They play OP cards. Weak cards are usually not played and forgotten.
When you create a new expansion the power level of cards will not be the same. When you nerf OP card A people will just find OP card B.
Why spend so much time and effort having stuff perfectly balanced? Time of course also means money. It is also sometimes difficult to evaluate if a card is OP just by looking at it without playing said card with tons of possible combinations of cards in a deck.
Life is much easier to just chuck an expansion. Let the players discover what is OP and have fun with OP cards. Then see if there are tons of complaint threads and nerf the OP card.
Of course expansions average power level does get increased a bit to attract players to buy expansions. Why bother with new expansion if you can still win? That ends up with all that power creep talks.
Then that ends with all the talk with card rotation with giant discussions.
Always sounds easy to just nerf or buff cards.
Why buff a card when you can just make a new strong card? Also you can easily overbuff a card and make it OP making people complaining on a card that they had forgotten.
When you nerf a card you have to remember that some people spend money to obtain an OP card. Someone who spent money on something only to find it suddenly become useless will often be sad.
Then you have some concept of perfectly unbalanced. Something like if everything is perfectly balanced then everything must be equally boring.
Tldr: Balancing is hard. Life is hard.
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I don’t know if you’d count this, but while it wasn’t the uncontested top deck in the Unearthed Prophecy meta, Aggro Abyssian (with pre-nerf Phantasm, Tiger, Desolator, and Revenant) was solidly among the top tier.
I’d also argue that Creep was the best deck in the game as a whole during the brief period when Unlimited was a thing. Since the format was casual it’s difficult to give any hard evidence, and moreover it felt wrong to play any actually good deck too much because you would stomp on the noobs so badly, but the deck felt absolutely busted. The key interaction was the ability to play Abyssal Tormentor + Sphere of Darkness under the enemy general on 7 mana to give you essentially an Obliterate to the face plus a 6/6 Provoke, which you could then follow up with actual Obliterate on 8 if necessary.
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Wasn"t 7mana variax toptier aswell ?(only behind starhorn with 4dmg gaze)
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Oh true, I’ve forgotten this. I guess it counts.
I don’t think so. It was highrolly and annoying, but not top tier.
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I’ve never hit gold. I’m always stuck in silver and I’ve been playing for over a year.
Still having fun despite getting crushed as I reach close to gold haha
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