Just wanna suggest a small buff to painful pluck, in particular I think it should also target the space under the enemy general. In that way it would be combo with abyssal tormentor. Considering we loose sphere of darkness I consider it a pretty fair buff, what do you think?
Small painful pluck buff
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Meh. I honestly wouldnt want a shadowcreep archetype thats too close to how it was before. The only way to truly convince us that the rotation was worth it is to make us go “wow i never thought duelyst could play like this”.
Also, inb4 they release a card that lets you move tiles in the next expansion.
Also shadow creep as alternate abyssian resource(e.g. shadow creeps are mana tiles this turn).
Insert “the future is now old man” meme
Shit i should have made that a fan card entry
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creep tile buff-wen
im still waiting for creep to get its own version of blood echoes
I don’t understand how this suggestion is similar to pre-rotation creep. I’m no Abyssian expert, but I always thought pre-rotation creep didn’t really necessarily need enemies standing on the creeps, while new creep focuses on maximizing the damage dealt by creeps. Wouldn’t this suggestion support the latter?
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Simply because Abyssal Tormentor exists, I think that your small buff could push creep to being over the top for standard. Old creep wasn’t fun to play against and if it returns to being like that again, god help us all. I wouldn’t be surprised if people do something like Abyssal Tormentor with Sphere of Darkness on 7 mana to win in unlimited, if people had enough creep down.
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By too similar, i mean 1-shotting the enemy general at the end.
Before it was getting klaxon killed and then obliterate.
If they buff painful pluck like that. It’s “play that new legendary, then painful pluck”.
There is literally zero shift in playstyle.
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That makes sense. But is there a particular reason why you want creep to be entirely reworked from pre-rotation? Unlimited exists, and I wouldn’t want an archetype to become too completely lose uniformity either.
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Not asking for a rework. Theres a side of creep that have been left unexplored, and underdeveloped:Nethermelds, that card that makes your tiles do a bone swarm, etc.
Creeps are practically an alternate resource.
The rotation is the perfect opportunity to introduce new ways to cash those tiles in: new ways to summon minions(like a mini grandmaster), munch, the stuff i suggested. it’d be pretty lame if we just get an obliterate abyss in different packaging when the sky is the limit to what they can do.
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Basically, i dont think creep needs to change, but will be pretty disappointed.
Based on my experience with a creep Lilithe list ft. Nocturne, I can say that it is probably best if Shadow Nova is the only creep tile that can directly target the enemy general. While a lot of good pay-off cards for creep got removed (Azalea, Obliteration, Klaxon, Ooz), an unanswered Abyssal Tormentor can be devastating if your opponent does not have an answer for it. Through cards like Painful pluck, Abyssal Crawler, and Nocturne+Wraithling combos it is not incredibly difficult to generate enough creep tiles for the late game. When combined with Tormentor, Creep tiles can become powerful removal (especially with cards like Painful Pluck), and when combined with Shadow Nova you can instantly target-down the enemy general for burst. Abyssal Tormentor also forces your opponent to be mindful of their location, as standing on a creep tile could mean instant death.
If you want to play an Abyssal Tormentor list, I personally feel that Lillithe is the best way to go. With Nocturne, you can focus more on generating creep tiles through wraithlings while also having creep generation cards (Shadow Nova, Abyssal Crawler) gain more value from their effects. Having wraithlings makes it easier to use Dark Fire Sacrifice, which can let you combo Abyssal Tormentor and Shadow Nova on the same turn.
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Old shadow Nova was op because the creep mechanic was op. Abyssal tormentor+pluck (hipotetically) is different because 1 its a combo and 2 tormentor is a minion so you can remove it and creep will return to deal 1 damage. Also in a regular match your opponent will not allow you to generate tons of creep, just like it was with obliterate. So will it be a good buff? Yes. Op? I don’t think so considering that the deck is not even tier 2 right now
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But the person using Tormentor would most likely to be looking to use its ability the same turn to kill you. So being able to remove it doesn’t matter if you are dead.
But there are differences between them. Tormentor comes earlier since it costs 6 mana, can be ramped out as the stats alone makes it pretty decent along with its provoke and you can use its ability to chip away at the opponents health since it doesn’t remove the creep like Obliterate does. So even if you don’t generate a lot of creep, Tormentor is more flexible in the way it can be used. Being able to have a way to cheaply and easily put a creep tile under the general would just be icing on the cake at that point. Which doesn’t need to happen.
The buff may not seem big, but I would argue it is big enough that it would make the whole package too good.
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disagree. Against a good player, tormentor is just a removal target, since creep decks lack anything else which demands hard removal. Also, why are people so afraid of a tormentor + pluck combo? Most factions can do way more damage on 7 than you can lay down creep.
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I wasn’t trying to state that pluck plus Tormentor was absolutely terrifying, but moreso that it can be good to play on 7 with Tormentor to try and help clear the board. I do agree with your assessment on Tormentor being a big removal target tho, since besides Abyssal Juggernaught (and maybe Nocturne) there isn’t a lot of cards other than Tormentor that necessarily warrant removal. This is also why I try to run Lillithe and Dark Fire sacrifice, as together they give you the option of immediately playing Tormentor alongside Nova without having to wait a turn or rely on the rng of painful pluck to hit the enemy general, although I am still trying to tinker with the deck.
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Imo Creep is just a couple of good synergy cards away from being good again. I’m sure it will be in a better state next expansion. Munch and Yielding Depths were already steps to the right direction.
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i cant wait for the chittering tiller + move a creep tile combo
and honestly darkspine elemental is more useful than tormentor for removal. it comes down sooner and usually isnt worth removing so it might survive a long time
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How is creep supposed to win post-rotation? I only play the Obliterate/Night Fiend spam variant in Unlimited. I can’t see how you can win, even with Tormentor, without a reliable way to get creep under your opponent.
i already said so in the other posts.
- about this thing
there’s already shadow nova and chittering tiller for that. it’s weaker, but it’s something creep players will have to deal with(for now)
- and now about this thing
There /will/ be more to the rotation other than IV and Mythrons. creep has its old wincons on top of new wincons it can get.
they can make spells that radiate out of the shadow creeps(something of a night fiend reprint, or reflavoring), make “mini obliterate spells”, turn shadow nova into something else.
Obliterate wasn’t the only thing they tried to make creep work you know?
they’ve tried throwing a bunch of things on the wall but obliterate simply worked best. Any card they print with obliterate lingering around simply made obliterate stronger, or deemed unnecessary. If they print something that could be good as its own archetype, it’ll have to be nerfed to keep obliterate going. that’s why night fiend is so shite when it could have been in leagues with makantor, flamewreath, and whatever.
there’s also this guy right here who could use some extra cards to streamline his deck:
I’ve already talked about my other ideas where you can temporarily turn shadow creeps into mana globes (and ramp into grandmaster or revenant or whatever).
there’s that artifact for creep will work even better with EMP out of the picture in less than a year.
tldr:
shadow creep portals, mana globe creeps for ramp, a good abyssian makantor(which is only fair considering how other factions have their version of that too). the good old face artifact card.
and that’s the only few things I can think of at the top of my head.
I missed you talking about this one. I agree with you that they should try to make creep something different than Obliterate control, although I do enjoy playing that deck.
Also, I totally forgot Nova was a card (especially embarrasing since all my creep decks are still called Nova).
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