Agreed on vitriol, but sunriser is a balanced. Regarding cleric, it is the only card of its cost capable of generating infinite value. No card costing 1 should be able to do that. It is also the best enabler of the heal archetype, guaranteeing at least 1 free proc a turn. Why, I’d even argue it eclipses vitriol in terms of overtuned ability for this reason alone.
Slight balance suggestion
2 Likes
Cleric is a strong enabler, and Sunriser is a strong threat. Nerfing the enabler and leaving the threat is just limiting design.
Except sunriser is easily dealt with and requires a ton of set up at low mana to net value.
Also: killing cleric isn’t even huge, as the tile persists after death unless dispelled or tiled over.
The tile is also a weakness as it limits mobility.
slight is such an understatement here lol
Regaurding Kha: Bumping the cost on it down one is a pretty big deal, with good positioning it may be even stronger then before, but now positioning matters. Regardless its ability to repeatedly go face versus generals for insane amounts of near uncounterable burst is why it has become one of the most problematic cards in the game. If my sideways adjustments do not sit well with you, perhaps something as simple as leaving it the same but adding “Khas may only attack a general once per turn.” would do the trick. But your suggestion makes it far far more problematic then it currently is, and it is already a massive issue.
Regarding Rippers:
Regaurding Desolator:
Yes Desolator is very powerful due to the full combination of things it does, but abyss desperately needs this. Power is not an inherently bad thing as the card has counterplay due to being vulnerable to dispel/transforms or getting burned off due to a full hand and even at 3/1 the body is negligible. Unless they spend more then four mana and or multiple cards to get in back in their hand creating negative tempo which while still good is fairly underwhelming.
The persistent effect is what makes it good, but not only do other factions have both superior, reliable, and efficient card advantage options, deso is also just on par with things like trinity and endless hunt. So my bias may be showing a bit here, but not only does abyss deserve deso, but all factions deserve strong staples, and deso is the last staple that is holding the faction together.
2 Likes
Wait, i might have missed something. Did you put endless hunt and desolator in the same league?
Deso is the stronger of the two cards for sure. But in context they are similar, and abyss needs such an effect, however endless hunt there is no way to stop and actually creates positive tempo. But they are similar in principal deso being a stronger but having more counterplay and negative tempo in trade.
Where as trinity is just of a very similar powerlevel used for a similar purpose, despite being pretty different.
Strong with counterplay, in a faction that needs it, is exactly why I think it is ok.
1 Like
Well, not saying it’s problematic. It’s just so superior to endless hunt that seemed odd to compare them. I mean they share the endless trait, but one is good and the other is bad
1 Like
I certainly would not call hunt bad, its just that vanar has better options…abyss does not. I chose to just sweep general power level of factions and card advantage under one statement, and then just mention the two closest cards I could think of off hand as examples.
2 Likes
Bumping the cost of Ka down 1 does literally nothing if you remove its flying ability, you are literally paying 4 mana to do the same amount of damage you would deal if you walked your dervishes up to them and smacked them. How does my suggestion make things more problematic? It may as well have the text “destroy all dervishs to deal 2 damage for every dervish destroyed”. Even with a Fault + 1 mana drop, Ka would still only deal 20 damage for 6 mana (plus a set up fault with nothing on it). 20 damage overall(5 dervish from Ka summon and 5 from 1 drop assuming all sands are still up) meaning if they go 20 damage to face they cannot kill the entire board. If going 20 to face is a big problem then we can remove Ka’s flying and give it Celerity so it can move 2 extra spaces. This also makes Provoke minons a valid counter to Ka. If you remove all the mobility of Ka, then it is useless.
Regarding Rippers, I don’t see why removing Celerity is a problem, If 2 spaces were given then the Rippers move to the exact same areas but simply cannot attack twice.
Desolator is too powerful of a card. Just because it belongs to Abyssian Host should not excuse it. Desolator is not even a real tempo lost if used with Maehv. It makes a 4/4 for 5 and hits your opponent for 2 damage. The revive ability makes it too good as it continually stays in the action bar. It really doesn’t take multiple cards to get it back to your hand when you can easily BBS.
1 Like
You think anything about Kha is ok? But Deso is not? I am throughly confused…20 damage is absolutly not ok, heck even half that is to way much. The entire point of dervishes and Fault is to have strong board presence but have to work for the damage. The mobility and the ability to go face is the problem. Without flying you are paying four mana to give other dervishes rush and or double their movement that is extremely powerful. While also having an extremly hard to kill unit.
Celerity could be even worse as it cold push even more damage and still likely reach anywhere. The whole issue is flying or celerity should not be combined with rush, as rush is already possibly the strongest keyword and is balanced by limited mobility.
Rippers Eggs are high risk high reward. If you want to remove celerity the risk factor has to go and it needs to be summoned as a minon not an egg. Which would be fair but strips their identity. Your moving something from to strong to to weak.
Deso is a joke by comparison and is in the bottom tier faction where as Vet is at the top. Maevs BBs comes with a built in drawback and destroys desos body, that is very fair. And yes the faction that cards are in is one of the biggest factors. Deso is not even to strong, yet you want to make it weak. Your also discounting that it does not revive but costs four mana each time which is massive.
P.S. Sorry for resorting to poor form, I am just getting a bit flustered. And I was already flustered from people resorting to poor form on my thread so it’s getting harder to stay composed.
1 Like
5 Mana - Deal 2 damage to the enemy general, Lose your BBS, Develop a 4/4 body
OP cards that are better than Deso for a similar Mana cost and BBS usage that the OP somehow failed to mention
5 Mana - Deal 2 damage to all enemies in an area, Save a friendly minion from being destroyed, Develop a really annoying 3/4 body that can proc its effect multiple times in the same turn its summoned, not to mention how much you’ll die if you don’t immediately remove it.
5 Mana - Deal 2 damage to all enemies in an area, Lose your BBS, Develop a really annoying 2/4 body, All teleportation spells now deal 2 damage to all enemies in an area if this minion is not destroyed. Deals 2 damage in an area for each turn it is kept alive.
6 Mana - Deal 4 damage to ANY ENEMY, Develop a 2/2 dervish, along with a 3/5 (really good stat line as opposed to a 4/4). Has a lot of synergy with Dervish stuff.
5 Mana - One enemy (or multiple if you have iridium scale) takes a lot of damage, Develop a 5/4 body, and your General is now really OP.
7 Mana - Deal 5 damage to an Enemy, Develop a 5/6 body, Activate your BBS
I couldn’t decide between this or Drogon so just did both, Magmar doesn’t need BBS to be OP anyways
6 Mana - Deal 4 Damage to an enemy Minion, Develop a 4/5 Body
5 Mana - Deal 2 Damage to the enemy General, Develop a 4/4 Body, Both players draw a card. If this minion is not immediately destroyed, destroy the enemy general.
Not only are these minions more tempo positive than Desolator and can deal damage to BOTH THE ENEMY GENERAL AND MINIONS, but most of them are also Answer-or-Dies, whereas that Husk can’t do anything if its left alive but its out of range. Removing any Minions is also usually more important than dealing 2 damage to the enemy general, only to get steamrolled the next turn because you couldn’t remove board.
And somehow, the only card that we think needs to be changed is deso 
5 Likes
That wouldn’t be a nerf. It’d be a huge buff.
4 Likes
And explaining how: now he’d be able to chain onto ALL THINGS A FAULT CREATES. ON ANY GENERAL. BECAUSE. SCREW YOU.
3 Likes
Flamewreath.
For the sake of fairness you should mention that next turn you will deal 2 dmg to at least smth even without teleports by just moving this.
That said, I think it’s perfectly fine. Main problem of Deso is how hard it is to remove it from a match for anything nonVet. Unlike everything else you’ve listed.
1 Like
Deso is also weak to dispell. I Think its completely fine in its current state
2 Likes
Cloudcaller definitely isn’t stronger than Desolator. You can’t be serious.
1 Like
If you guys really wanna nerf Abyssian hard, i give you the following that hits in a powerful but obscure place:
Gor: Stats increased to 2/2. DW changed to “At the end of the turn, summon this minion in a random space.”
Done. You no longer give Abyss 6 Sarlacs to hypersacrifice. A similar idea could be discussed on Deso by making it cheaper but only returning to hand later on instead of immediately, or tweaking his OG.
4 Likes
I needed to put at least ONE vanar card that could be on par with Deso and has a similar effect. Do you think hydrogarm would have been a better choice? Also cloudcaller is pretty decent to me, removing board and developing a better body than the deso + BBS for a husk. I honestly don’t have any cloudcallers, so yeah, anyone that plays vanar can shoot me down now.