Immortal Vanguards Pre-Release Bitesize Reviews & Polls
So exactly how good are we at estimating how good new cards will be before they come out? Let’s try and find out! With spoiler season over, I hereby challenge you to publicly state–for the record–how you expect the new expansion to perform when it finally hits coming Tuesday. Then, after a few weeks have gone by we can all reflect and laugh at how horribly wrong or instead marvel at how impressively right we were! This thread does two things: it aims to gather the summarized thoughts of everyone who dares state them and collect polling data on six distinct aspects to the Immortal Vanguards expansion. I’m calling those summarized thoughts “Bitesize Reviews” because they’re meant to be very brief, a few sentences per card at most! I’ve used my own Colloquial Tierlyst to structure mine (see below) but feel free to do them however you like. You’ll find my own BRs below and the five polls below them. Feel free to use my template to make sure you cover every card (if you don’t have thoughts on everything, that’s fine too!).
Get the template here if you like
Abyssian
Lyonar
Magmar
Songhai
- Shidai Stormblossom:
- Suzumebachi:
- Manakite Drifter:
- Dusk Rigger:
- Second-sword Sarugi:
- Assassination Protocol:
Vanar
Vetruvian
Neutral
Without further ado, here are my thoughts!
@TheMatsjo’s Bitesize Reviews:
Abyssian
- Maehv Skinsolder: Better than Lilithe, worse than Cassyva. A Viable General, but only within a few very narrow builds.
- Cacophynos: Looks like Trash to me, but a decent pick in Gauntlet.
- Void Talon: Underestimated, I think this might be a Viable Meta card, either by helping control big stomping threats or by comboing for massive damage.
- Nightmare Operant: Cool for a Meme deck but Trash otherwise. I haven’t seen a way to reliably get Mechaz0rs out from your deck so I think this is a pass.
- Moonrider: Pretty cool card and definitely Viable in Gauntlet but I don’t see it competing with the cards available to Abyssian in Ranked.
- Infest: Just a Fun Meme. Very cool, but unreliable to make the cut, especially in this anti-swarm world we live in.
Lyonar
- Brome Warcrest: Plugs the gaps in the Lyonar General lineup by supporting zoo and Zeal decks. Better than Zir’An (in a vacuum), but more narrow and weaker than Argeon, especially in this anti-swarm and anti-Artifact world we live in.
- Surgeforger: An Answer or Die Top Tier Niche card if I ever saw one. I expect Surgeforger to be a Staple for zoo decks of all kinds and people to call out for nerfs against it, at least until people start running dispel to thwart it. Excellent, if you can get it up and running for two or more turns.
- Ironcliffe Monument: A cool Answer or Die Meme card and terrifying in Gauntlet, but too slow and unreliable otherwise, especially because Vetruvian and Magmar exist. Overrated.
- Oakenheart: Viable Niche card for a midrange Mech deck. 5 Mana is pretty steep but if you can slam it down on an established board the +1/+1 will really count for something because it pushes Cannons and Replicants over a lot of breaking points. Not essential, but a good card.
- Prominence: Prominence just looks like a good, solid, all-around Lyonar card for many midrange decks. Brome might like it. It might be better than it looks, but I’m going to bet on it being a Viable card, although at 4 Attack you really don’t want to run it into Cyphiron.
- Sunstrike: This looks like a Healyonar card, but Healyonar is crammed with essentials at the 4 Mana slot and the positioning requirement makes it nigh-impossible to use against Vetruvian and Magmar. I hope this turns out to be better than it looks because it just seems like a Viable card with nowhere to go.
Magmar
- Ragnora the Relentless: An excellent General, and probably slightly better than Vaath and Starthorn, especially after the two new Egg support spells.
- Biomimetic Hulk: People are down on this thing but I’m not convinced. I bet it’s the cheap Build Minions that will see play and you get a lot of payoff with this thing, even if it just sucks up 10 damage while you develop. Answer or Die and Viable.
- Seismoid: I think this is a really weird design for a Mill deck but the effect is pretty good for a new swarm deck so I think it’ll see a lot of play as a Staple in that Niche.
- Armada: I’m not sure what to think of this. I like how you can try to more or less aim its bombs but I can’t imagine people playing this over Warbeast. Another Viable card with nowhere to go?
- Pupabomb: Pupabomb looks like a great card and a Niche Staple for Egg decks. You can even attack with a Ripper to let it die and then immediately blow it up for a buffed 14 damage.
- Embryotic Insight: Another Niche Staple. It’s good, cheap draw but only for Egg decks. Good design imo.
Songhai
- Shidai Stormblossom: Shidai is a weird design but undeniably strong, probably the best of the three Songhai Generals because she slots into Spell and Arcanyst decks so well.
- Suzumebachi: Looks like Trash in any context unless you need more than 3 Chakri Avatars.
- Manakite Drifter: This doesn’t look great right now but I have a feeling this’ll see play for some kind of combo deck that we haven’t even thought of. Here’s me hoping for a Niche Staple on this one.
- Dusk Rigger: Really cool design but I don’t see how this would fit into a Mech deck that somehow also wants to backstab and cast spells to trigger stuff. Maybe for a janky toolbox Meme deck? Horrible for Gauntlet.
- Second-sword Sarugi: Don’t spell decks want to just cast spells? Looks like too little too late for a deck that is doing very different things at 7 Mana. Answer or Die Trash is my bet.
- Assassination Protocol: This card looks like a Staple for a bunch of new Songhai decks to me (unless Thunderhorn gets nerfed maybe). Another card with a lot of potential, I’m hoping Niche Staple for this one.
Vanar
- Ilena Cryobyte: Ilena looks like the worst of the three Vanar Generals, but still fun and good in her own way. Her BBS dictates a very specific play style that doesn’t line up with Vanar’s strengths, or so it seems to me.
- Animus Plate: A Niche Answer or Die card, but I suspect it’s too much of a win-more to actually push Vespyrs as an archetype. I somewhat hope I’m wrong because I like Vespyrs a lot, but I’m not convinced so I think this is a Meta card that’ll only be good if Vespyrs become better independently of it. 5 Mana is really steep for an Artifact.
- Cryoblade: Might be good for Ilena Stun decks, a Viable Niche card that can reliably trade up or help finish the enemy in some kind of buff deck.
- Draugar Eyolith: Too expensive, slow and weak to removal to see play outside of Gauntlet imo. Trash.
- Echo Deliverant: Really cool effect but I don’t see it being worth it. 6 Mana for a 6/4 that doesn’t help with building Mechaz0r? Niche Trash, even worse in Gauntlet.
- Denadoro: Why prop up a mechanism that isn’t working with just a stat stick that doesn’t help them be worth it? Is it worth it to give +2 to a Crystal Cloaker? Just try to make the mechanism work rather than destroy its identity, CP. Niche Trash from me.
Vetruvian
- Ciphyron Ascendant: The weakest of the Vetruvian Generals in my experience so far. I really want to see that sabotage deck that I will hate to face come into being though. Maybe its time will come.
- Grapnel Paradigm: A Top Tier Niche card for many Vetruvian and every Ciphyron deck that will displace Aymara Healers wherever it’s run. Play alongside Star’s Fury for maximum sadism.
- Simulacra Obelysk: I like it but it seems really slow for the effort you put in. It’s definitely Answer or Die and you can’t stop its copies with dispel so I don’t know about this one. Maybe Viable, but with Plasma Storm and Grapnel existing it might just be unplayable.
- Silica Weaver: I can’t imagine this being good. Niche Trash.
- Gust: Gust seems like a good, Viable Niche card for slower Fault or Obelysk decks though. Might be hard to compete with BoA, Sirocco, Star’s Fury and Superior Mirage though.
- Monolithic Vision: A Fun Meme in Ranked and nothing else. Potentially Top Tier for Gauntlet though.
Neutral
- Bloodbound Mentor: I expect this to show up in Shidai and Faie decks but I’m not sure if I’ll see it played elsewhere. A Viable Niche card, imo.
- Lost Artificer: Artifacts might see more play if they had their cost reduced. I like Artificer and think it could be a Staple for any Niche that runs a few Artifacts like some Lyonar decks and Solo Sajj.
- Rescue-RX: It looks pretty bad but I can see it played in a Doom deck that just stalls until the clock runs out. A Viable card for a very small Niche.
- Architect-T2K5: Better than people give it credit for, and a better Sun Wisp to combo with Ironcliffe Heart. A Viable Niche card, and grat in Gauntlet too.
- Replicant: Simply being able to vomit 2/2’s is going to be wonderful in swarm decks and most Mech decks. A Top Tier Niche card, maybe even for Twin Fang decks running Kujata.
- DECEPTIB0T: A Fun card, but also Trash. It’s just not going to happen, especially with that average stat line.
- Project Ω: Trash everywhere. Love its art though.
- S.I.L.V.E.R.: A wonderful top-end for Mech decks. I expect to see this a lot if any Mech deck actually shows up. I do think it’s too value-oriented to get Top Tier Niche status so I’m going Viable Niche instead.
On to the polls!
Poll 1: Build Keyword
On a scale of 1-10, to what degree is the Build mechanism good for Duelyst? 1 = Horrible, 5 = Neutral, 10 = Great, 11 = Don’t Know/No Answer
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0 voters
Poll 2: Mechaz0r
On a scale of 1-10, to what degree are the changes to Mechaz0r good for Duelyst? 1 = Horrible, 5 = Neutral, 10 = Great, 11 = Don’t Know/No Answer
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Poll 3: New Mechs
On a scale of 1-10, to what degree are you personally happy with the new direction for Mechs? 1 = Very Unhappy, 5 = Neutral, 10 = Very Happy, 11 = Don’t Know/No Answer
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Poll 4: Hype
On a scale of 1-10, to what degree are you hyped for the expansion? 1 = Not At All, 5 = Neutral, 10 = Completely, 11 = Don’t Know/No Answer
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Poll 5: Expansion Impact
On a scale of 1-10, to what degree do you believe the expansion will change the Duelyst metagame? 1 = Not At All, 5 = Neutral, 10 = Completely, 11 = Don’t Know/No Answer
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Poll 6: Preorders
Have you, or are you planning to preorder the 35 Orb preorder pack?
- Yes, and I already have
- Yes, I’ll buy it before the promotion ends
- No, I’m still considering it
- No, I don’t spend money on Duelyst
- No, I don’t spend money on Orbs
- No, I don’t want to preorder at all
- No, I don’t want to preorder something when I don’t completely know what I’m getting
- No, I’m not convinced I want the expansion
- No, I can’t afford to
- Don’t Know/No Answer
- Other, namely…
0 voters
This expansion seems to be bringing in some cool new ideas and I like the ideas behind a lot of the revealed cards. I just worry that they mostly won’t have enough impact to actually affect the way the game is actually played. Unless we get a balance patch with the release, of course. I do expect some Mech decks to show up and maybe even some zoo if they can reliably top 4 Health.
Cheers.