Miguel's Abyss deck and discussion space

[deathsadvocate]

Interesting principal, but I feel it may be rather counter intuitive as the point of double ramp dying wish is so you can drop multiple cheap but strong units. We also run into the issue of the decks core card advantage engine will likely get deleted, and that when you do get double ramp early on you tend to be in really good shape already. I spent awhile trying to brew something but I just can not come up with anything.

But while we are on the topic let me drop my old Abyss Q list with a small update:

https://www.bagoum.com/deckbuilder#MTozNTUsMzoxOTA1MiwzOjExMDE2LDM6MTA5OTMsMzoxMTA4NCwzOjE5MDUwLDM6MTAwMjAsMzozNjMsMzoxMDk4MSwzOjExMTI2LDM6MTA5NTcsMzoxMTEzMiwzOjMyOSwzOjExMTM2

Summary

This deck packs a lot of healing and utility two drops, stuff maev likes to run anyways. But in this deck we go a little overboard and have almost nothing but two drops complete with cycle and extra replaces.

The deck has one major goal, and that is to play Q on six mana, stabilize on seven, and then string together back to back Arcane Devouerers into Reliquarian combos which assuming you were replacing correctly after Q should be 100% chance of drawing after Q deletes most of your deck for you. You tend to replace and dig for Q, and you usually toss away the other combo parts since Q makes them easy to draw, although if your around five mana plus you tend to hold onto them so as to make drawing them even more consistent after Q, or just incase you cant find a Q.

For those that don’t know how Reliquarians effect works, it sacrifices an abyssian faction unit to create an artifact with an attack bonus equal to the sacrificed units attack, and when you attack a minion with it you steal health equal to the attack bonus. So if you sacrifice an arcane devouerer you get a whopping eight bonus to attack so you can do ten damage face, or if you hit a minion you get a sixteen health swing. Due note that if you sacrifice a neutral minion you only get the attack buff and no lifesteal affect, and if you somehow have a different faction unit in your control it has a unique effect depending on the faction. But for the most part you really only want to be sacrificing arcane devouerer.

[bepoest]

Interesting principal, but I feel it may be rather counter intuitive as the point of double ramp dying wish is so you can drop multiple cheap but strong units. We also run into the issue of the decks core card advantage engine will likely get deleted, and that when you do get double ramp early on you tend to be in really good shape already. I spent awhile trying to brew something but I just can not come up with anything.

That I cannot disagree with. It seems it’s a valid build but has no point besides being different by taking a wild turn into Tempo/Combo playstyle at 6+ mana. Could be useful some day to counter a specific metagame? IDK.

@miguelosz I think Aethermasters are really needed as we are doubling down on the risk of slumping performance when no ramp is to be found.

[zerounderscoreou]

DFC is generally better than Grimwar in Xor because:

1. Maehv’s bbs breaks artifacts
2. You lose health punching stuff.
3. Grimwar makes your general the target of all your opponent’s damage. DFC can be used to distract your opponent.

I disagree with this. Maehv’s face is already the primary target, but this time you have an ability and incentive to punch them back. BBS doesn’t matter - you can delay it by 1 turn or you can sacrifice a charge for additional damage. And punching them once is usually enough.

[deathsadvocate]

I think there are certainly good arguments for both. As a general rule I find Grimwar to be the better card if you must choose between them due to always having an active unit, helping you avoid AOE, and letting you be either proactive or defensive. And in this case you have even fewer reliable targets for DFC.

But I also fully agree with all of unktrials1s points.

That being said I think you are missing a glorious opportunity to run Blood Echos. If you want to go the grimwar route I think you gotta try it out, its even Xor Friendly!

Here is an Echos Variant I threw together:

https://www.bagoum.com/deckbuilder#MTozNTUsMzoyMDA1OSwzOjIwMjI2LDM6MTkwNTAsMzoxMTA4OCwzOjIwMDQ5LDM6MzI2LDM6MTAzMDQsMzoyMDI1NywzOjIwMDU3LDM6MTkwNDUsMzozMDAwMiwyOjEwOTYxLDM6MzE4LDE6MzU3

[zerounderscoreou]

I think you are missing a glorious opportunity to run Blood Echos

I considered it and put Abhorrent Unbirth instead. In this case their effect is almost identical IMO.

[deathsadvocate]

You have a good point, it is almost strictly better. Be nice to fit both though. I was initially skeptical of Letigress over just Tiger but you may have another good point there to. This is a really cool idea, I am definitely going to try and test and refine it. Thanks for the inspiration.

Revised idea:

https://www.bagoum.com/deckbuilder#MTozNTUsMzoyMDA1OSwzOjIwMjI2LDM6MTkwNTAsMzoxMTA4OCwzOjIwMDQ5LDM6MzI2LDM6MjAzNDgsMzoyMDI1NywzOjIwMDU3LDM6MTkwNDUsMzozMDAwMiwyOjEwOTYxLDM6MTExMTIsMTozNTc=

[deathsadvocate]

Well I only had some marginal success with it. To frequently I ran into the issue of just not having the field to make grimwar worthwhile, or alternatively using grimwar defensively but never being able to get in punch range. I can not think of any more optimization for it though. Its pretty decent, I added the final Draft to my thread and gave you credit for the inspiration.

But it did also inspire me to make two different lists borrowing from its principals:

The first going for Letigress and the more go to Xor package instead of the Mech/Tooth route I had previously tried for unbirth Xor. This seems to be the most successful of the batch:

https://www.bagoum.com/deckbuilder#MTozNTUsMzoyMDA1OSwzOjIwMjI2LDM6MTkwNTAsMzoxMTA4OCwzOjIwMDQ5LDM6MzI2LDM6MjAzNDgsMzoxMDMwNCwzOjIwMDU3LDM6MTkwNDUsMzoxMDAxMiwyOjExMTQ0LDM6MTExMTIsMTozNTc=

And then an update to an old favorite of mine Eternal Army Lillith:

https://www.bagoum.com/deckbuilder#MTozMDEsMzozMzEsMzoyMDI3MiwzOjExMDg4LDM6MjAwNDksMzozMjYsMzoyMDM0OCwzOjIwMjU3LDM6MjAwNTcsMzoxOTA0NSwzOjMwMDAyLDM6MzQxLDM6MTAwMTIsMzozMDAzOQ==

[bepoest]

Unleash the Evil should cost 7.

[terrarius]

There is much that should be different

[bepoest]

This is the budget Cass I’m using on the lower ladder during this early season, to try avoid hitting newbies too much with my other abominable wallet builds.

[miguelosz]

Looks solid! If I ever get back to Doolin’, I’m gonna hit Bronze with some pretty horrible memes

[alplod]

Someone should keep this thread alive, heh?

I have some new/old brew here. Infinite Sarlacs, do you remember the archetype, guys?

[eternal swarm DW]MTozMDEsMzozMTQsMzozMTgsMzozNDAsMzozNTksMzoxMTAyMiwzOjExMDk1LDM6MTkwNDUsMzoyMDA0OSwzOjIwMTY2LDM6MjAxOTksMzoyMDI1NywzOjMwMDAyLDM6MzAwMzk=

Gameplay:

Start) Priority is to get DW cost reduction early. As early as possible and as much as possible. Resummon Carrion Collectors if you can. Don’t go aggro, back off.

Plan A) Summon Cheap Sarlacs and resummon them via echoes and consuming. Multiply the number of sarlacs. Play something that cashes swarm. Profit.

Plan B) Summon cheap Vorpals and Grimes. Attack with them then resummon via echoes or consuming. Due to the Dying Wish effect you actually produce swarm this way. Play something that cashes swarm. Profit.

The deck borrows the idea of playing Grimwar with Blood Echoes from @deathsadvocate’s eternal army deck, but goes in the different direction for swarm - DW direction.

Actually, wr is a bit higher than 50% in low diamond. Highrolls are disgusting. I love it.

The main problems are no hard removal and lack of draw power. I don’t like Desolator here since you can’t spam him with Lilithe, so Neko is my only choice. Anyway, if the opponent lacks dispel options, you would gain so much undying board by 5-6 mana turn that you’re not actually required to summon anything

Gazer is for deck thinning.

GLHF.

I’ve already summoned gates 3 times with grimes resummoning

[miguelosz]

Looks fun! I think you’d benefit from adding Ritual Banishing instead of Gazers, especially since you run Sarlac. Gazers’ face damage is bad for the artifacts and vs. hyper aggro decks. If you really need the draw, good ol’ Void Hunter might do the trick

[alplod]

Well, Gazers are a compromise between deck thinning and turn 1 play. I could also use inkling surge, but it costs 1 mana - too much I don’t always have enough mana to play BBS, inkling may make it even harder.

That said, maybe Void Hunter is a bro. Aggressively statted body which is going to cost 0 more often than not. I should try it.

[zerounderscoreou]

Weird decks. I guess everyone here likes them. But how weird a deck can be? How would you rate, say, Golem Maehv? To me it even sounds unplayable. But…

I think I got this idea after a conversation about Abyssian Arcanysts (which I don’t like). Golems are kind of the opposite. Each faction gets one or the other. But it’s not necessary so. Abyssian don’t get faction synergy with Golems, but they have good tools which synergize with good stats. Good stats is what Golems provide. So why not?

I played 10 matches in S-rank (11 counting the one where my opponent was AFK) with 50% winrate (3-2 counting only S-rank opponents). It’s strange, it’s awkward, it’s… yeah, it’s weird. It feels kind of like playing Lyonar while not playing Lyonar.

This is not the final version, I already have an updated list which I’m gonna test later. There also was an earlier version with WCG & Cadence (you can see both under the spoiler below). WCG is too slow, I never really got to play it, even though it looks like a logical finisher. Cadence occasionally worked, but was too situational IMO (partially due to lack of draw). I still keep it as a possible ranged finisher. Diamond Golem has really good stats and curves the deck out, but it still felt too slow - most of the time I wanted something cheaper. Boulder Breacher is also good in theory, enables trades, synergizes with Mindlathe, but eventually has the same problem as Chakram - very rarely I had the board or positioning where it would be a good play. In 11 matches I haven’t played Chakram a single time! So I’m thinking about taking it out entirely and possibly replacing Breacher with Horrific Visage. Breath of the Unborn is another option but I haven’t faced any swarm decks yet. Betrayal on the other hand seems like a good fit here - deck is centered around putting stat pressure where opponent would want to back away and block with minions. Nether Summoning also feels like an important card but still have to get more proof of it. Mindlathe covers the midgame in case of bad draws and allows for some tempo gains later on (especially if I can punch them in the face with their own minion and then BBS it).

Lack of draw shows itself. On 6 mana I usually have 3 cards in hand, which is a bit low if I’m to go for combos. That is one of the reasons in my opinion why Cadence felt underwhelming - it becomes too hard to get all the cards.

At first I forgot to include Shaman. Even though I’m not a big fan of Shaman BBS opener, it provides a decent buff for Golems later in the game. I also felt like I need more than my usual of 9 2-drops. Celebrant didn’t contribute much - I already get a discount from Metallurgist, don’t have a particular need to ramp but need better stats. Metallurgist into Vanquisher on the center tile is the best opener as P2T1 IMO.

EMP is the next possible card to replace. Variax is something to think of as a lategame play but I don’t think games would go that long too often. Lack of draw and lack of healing is also something to consider.

Overall despite being a seemingly “heavy” deck it feels like a tempo one. By the time I can play EMP it’s often already too late and I need either a finisher (finishing was mostly done by Deso) or an out to the sorts of Necrotic Sphere. Tigress and Abhorrent Unbirth (to make this deck a complete abomination) might be just what I’m looking for.

Previous and next versions

[unktrial1]

This has got to be the ugliest deck I’ve ever seen.

[miguelosz]

You might get some ideas from my good ol’ Golem Cass: Dark Memes VIII: Golem Cass

[zerounderscoreou]

This has got to be the ugliest deck I’ve ever seen.

That is the kind of reply I wanted to hear. Thank you!

[miguelosz]

Mother of Hybrids (The Host Survives On)

Like many others, I wanted to give a farewell gift. I’ve been theorycrafting this thingie for a while, and since we’re all gonna die wait, I mean our collections better post it now than later.

This deck combines three main Abyss archetypes: creep, swarm and dying wish, plus one extra archetype which is a favorite of mine (artifacts). With a versalite playstyle, it’s both fun and reasonably powerful as well.

Winrate so far 3-0 (100 % woot woot) in Silver, and counting.

[snowshot]

I’ll try this

25 abyss types