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Midrange Kaleos (again)

(Trying not to derail @deathsadvocate 's thread continuing with @unreason and @phoenixtoasches )

I’ll be more concerned not having any Battle Pando or Juxtaposition :confused:

I guess I’ll go with :

  • -1x Assassin
  • -1x Hamon
  • -1x Painter
  • +3x Jux

… at least :slight_smile:

Maybe switch a Zendo to add a finisher like 1xSpiral
Battle Pando also works nicely with Protocol

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Eh, I wasn’t trying to help him with his deck in that case, I already did that in my other thread. I was just…bothered that despite all the advice me, @alplod, and @eurasianjay gave him in that thread, he put in ONE Kaido Assasssin, not to even mention that even three of them is worthless in the first place unless you are playing budget (which was not his case as was evident by the 3x Zendos and Painters).

But it doesn’t matter, just try to make a deck you can have fun with @unreason, I’m just an old fuddy duddy! :grin:

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@unreason

Off the cuff I still think a 2/1 decibot/silver split is still a really good idea if your going the protocol route.

Card advantage looks a bit light despite the medium curve, and skipping jux if your running any backstab and flamewreath is a mistake.

I’d also probably at least slot one or two EMP due to the state of the meta.

Pando is far from an auto especially if your already running flamewreath and thunderhorn, allthough it’s never bad. I may make make a quick draft when I get home, but it’s likely just going to end up mirroring Alpod, Jay, and Phoenix’s advice.

For what it’s worth, I still value protocol, but imo bot is dead and buried and your list is worse for running it.

I really don’t like protocol as most mid-range has enough targets for IF instead and I would rather have IF to attack the general than protocol.

IF is generally worse in midrange lists by virtue of Horn alone tbh, it’s one of the main sells as you get to not autolose to swarm by playing a midrange deck.

If has been bad in especially Kaleos for as long as I remember.

Does the supremacy of protocol in swarm match-ups take precedence of Inner Focus in one (wo)man army match-ups?

I’m not sure what you’re implying or getting at here? That IF is better against lists such as Mantra have little bearing when it functionally makes your deck as a whole worse considering the minions you’d have to run to get value from the card. You can leverage threats against those decks without simply trying to burst them down.

When I said that, it was in regards to the fact that most mid-range decks including the one above have much more targets for IF than usual. Looking at the above deck (assuming there are 3 Kaido’s as that is the norm) there are 18 minions that can be used with IF with most of the minions being low mana cost. While Protocol can be good early game when trying to establish board, late game when you are trying to finish the match, protocol become useless, but IF can be great in positioning a backstab minion and then buffing with KE.

I would rather try to put pressure on the enemy general with reactivation spells that would let you attack them (not necessarily bursting them) than ones that only let you target an enemy minion which may not even be helpful if there is only the enemy general on the board.

Protocol isn’t worth it even if you include thunderhorn as you would first have to get lucky to draw it and without thunderhorn the consistency of the card (if it even had any), goes down quite a bit in comparison to the AoS+Thunderhorn combo which even if you don’t draw TH still remains as removal.

Yes, IF can be inconsistent as well, but it is a far more valid card than protocol which requires there to be an enemy minion on the board in order to be somewhat useful whereas IF can just be used to attack the enemy general if there are no enemy minions.

And when I said one (wo)man army, although the connotation is Songhai, I mean any faction that focuses primarily on artifacts or spells which is just as large an umbrella if not larger than swarm archtypes.

You could also say the same about Protocol in one (wo)man army match-ups and you don’t have to change your minion line-up at all for IF considering the fact that most mid-range Songhai minions have attack below 4.

Personally, I like a hard removal split of:
2* OBS
2* Bamboozle
2* Bob Ross
In midranged Songhai decks. Bamboozle is a very high risk/high reward card, but the payoff is so big that I think it’s worth running.

Also, do you feel that this amount of card draw is enough? I guess your deck is heavy enough to work without too much draw, but you also rely on cheap spells, which can really eat up your hand. I haven’t played this deck, so I wouldn’t know for sure, but I can see it getting into very sticky situations if the opponent manages to remove your Bandits and Foxes.

…How did my post spawn this entire thread? Oh well. Let’s see here…

@nwardezir I had juxtaposition in here, and took it out because I wanted more big dudes. The theme is assassination protocol and big dudes. But I guess I have to get it in there somehow, since everyone on Earth is telling me it’s a good idea.

@phoenixtoasches So, I like seven turn-one plays. It gives me good-enough odds of getting one to feel comfortable without taking up too much of my deck. I figured, I’m running backstabbers, why not have all seven be backstabbers? The one assassin is just a spare, less-good katara/bandit. So the question is, are Kaido assassins really that bad? They have the right stats for cost. Does anyone else have thoughts on them?

Regardless, I guess I can go back to two kataras and no assassins for a couple healing mystics, like you or someone said.

And concerning inner focus and assassination protocol, I know I can’t hit their general, but protocol works on thunderhorns and hamon bladeseekers. I’m sold. And since it sounds like I’m about to run even fewer backstabbers, and I’m not planning on putting killing edge in here unless everyone starts saying it’s just that good (because it would crowd out my big dudes), I think protocol is the right choice. And I don’t have room for protocol and focus both (big dudes again).

@deathsadvocate Honestly, I just don’t want to run deceptibot and silver, and I’m not going to. @eurasianjay doesn’t like them, that’ll be my excuse. I’ll have to get jux in there, everyone’s saying that. I’ll see about the EMP’s. They just kind of go in everything, don’t they? If you want to throw me a bone in the form of a draft, I’ll greatly appreciate it.

@excogitator I feel like it’s not bad for draw right now, but with jux added in I’ll probably need some. I had my panddo cards split like you suggested in an earlier build (except three eternity painters because they’re amazing), but I took bamboozle out after never getting milage out of the draw effect. With jux eating my hand, I’ll probably want to readd transmute: panddo to cards to my spell list.

So summing up, no Kaido, mystics, jux, bamboozle, maybe EMP…

…I’ll see what I can do.

Edit: Capricious marauders? Just a passing thought I had.

…Are hamon bladeseekers actually good? At least good enough to run with protocol? Should I just take them out? I could run another grandmaster and another EMP to replace the lost muscle. Or I could bring those sunsteel defenders back. I didn’t really want to take them out in the first place, but I didn’t know what else to cut.

Edit: Continuing my passing thought from above, I could substitute capricious marauders for the hamon bladeseekers.

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I’m content enough with what you have here to leave it be, not saying its the best or in preferred form, but definitely competitive and somewhat true to the mid-range spirit.

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