Have you tried playing Abyssian with Creep as win condition?
Make Creep Great Again!
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No. Why is that relevant?
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This whole conversation seems pretty pointless to me.
Creep is simply not in the meta, just like midrange swarm or Arcanyst Lyonar or Arcanyst Abyssian or most any Maehv deck. Things fall and rise from the meta depending on other meta decks and the new support they get.
Not only that, but creep is rotating out. Who cares as far as primary ladder goes, creep will completely change with the next expansion anyways.
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Yes as my main; now I am only gold and a newish player (although I have spent some money on the deck)…I love the obliterate concept where you blow the whole board up and that is the win-con…
Do I think creep is a bit slow; yeah esp. without Klaxon(s) and I am FAR from the best pilot around; but the deck can work at least in gold level and prob diamond too if I was any good.
Is swarm a problem - yes; but frankly that is down to the whole firestorm cancertra deck than anything else; besides all decks should be vulnerable or the game becomes Hearthstone (sorry boring)…
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Yeah in 2 months there will be new cards which support the archetype. Nothing will happen till then.
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Check out Pestilence, @deathsadvocate’s creep deck. Probably the best that can be done with creep right now. Warning, legendaries ahoy.
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I have been trying to make old school creep work, and its ok, but it does certainly feel lackluster, and as you can see my most successful creep deck barely qualifies as a creep deck.
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Creep is such a cool arcehtype…the idea that you actually need to build up your finishers.Unfourtanetly its not very good right now…there are more stable controldecks that still have a wincon of compareable strengh,if not superior since they don,t need setup
I think that CPG will push creep with the next expansion…its going to die because the important stuff rotates out and thus will get new and hopefully strong support.
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I run a version of this; and it is a LOT of fun - yes you can tear your hair out when you miss all your cards and get wiped on turn 5 - but when you blow up the Cancerhai general and laugh at his desiccated corpse; nothing feels better…
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they tried high damage creep and that had to be nerfed.
they have finisher cards, but the meta is too fast to reach them.
creep simply needs more utility to be effective again.
nethermeld and choking tendrils were a step in the right direction, but not nearly enough.
the fact that the best “creep” deck only has 5 cards with creep synergy is sad.
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Yeah, I think the Pestilence deck can count on having 6-7 Creep tiles by 8 mana, though I still don’t think that’s good enough to be competitive.
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You raise an interesting point here. Is it fine that Creep changes with each rotation?
I would expect faction-defining mechanics like Creep to be stable over time, with selected cards which make them more or less viable, depending on the meta. Point is, we cannot really tell whether Abyssal Crawler or Shadow Nova are too weak or not, because the effect of Creep is going to change over time, which voids the purpose of the present topic.
I think the developers should REALLY consider including a few of the Shimzar cards into Core, which would help defining the identify of Creep and give foundations for the next cards which interact with it.
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Yeah I would love this - obviously I’m biased but sphere of darkness is not exactly finality; and obliterate should be in too…I can understand dropping klaxon if they replace him with something new but…
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Personally I believe that CPG decided they didn’t want current creep tools to define creep, so whatever support they give it in the next expansion will be Creep 3.0 essentially.
Perhaps future creep support will be made permanent if CPG is happy with how it plays out, or perhaps creep outside of expansion support will simply be a sort of tech tool Cassyva and certain Abyss cards have, such as how Sphere of Darkness and Cassyva’s bbs are used now.
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it could become like artifacts in songhai where they primarily support spell archetypes, but pure artifacthai isnt nearly as viable.
creep could become a support tool to swarm or ramp as opposed to being its own archetype. like the way lyonars tiles synergize with the old healyonar archetype.
“summon a wraithling on all friendly creep tiles”
“minions summoned on creep tiles cost 1 less”
“minions on creep tiles can no longer move”
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Creep decks are - and always have been - slow late game control decks. The archetype needs late game sustainability and Abyssian lost their best tool for this when Kelaino got nerfed.
Abyssian has all the set up tools for Shadow Creep to viable. They just don’t have the means to survive long enough to see the pay off.
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we need a neutral minion that turns friendly tiles into random tiles. like shadow creep to primal ground and back
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My personal idea for decent creep support is a cheap minion that enables creeps to create another creep tile in a nearby space every start of a turn; hence the name, “creep.”
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the only way creep has ever functioned is with a deck running 3 X spectral revenant. in beta it ran 3 X shadow nova, after the rework shadow nova became a joke and was replaced by a 1-of obliterate as the archetype became even more reliant on spectral revenant. since spectral revenant was nerfed the archetype is considered competitively unplayable which at tournament level may well be true but cassyva still has all the tools she needs to stall to win with obliterate or a second spectral revenant against most decks you’ll run into in ladder.
abyssal crawler generating a creep tile each turn means another point of health and attack on an abyssal juggernaut and another point of damage obliterate does. if it generated a creep tile whenever you played a card that would make basically no difference. you won’t get a creep tile playing it by itself turn 1. your opponent can potentially clear it before you get a single tile from it. at best you break even with 2 tiles generated if it sticks and you play 2 cards next turn. then you have to play another 2 card turn to get ahead in value from the way it works now.
running an extremely low curve and hand dumping to do 5 or 6 face damage with sphere of darkness would be an instant game over for you. the idea of this being a strong play is laughable not to mention having anti-synergy with playing 2 cards per turn to get more creep from crawler.
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I think creep isn’t about killing your opponent as much as it is about zoning your opponent. You are essentially putting barriers down where the opponent cannot exist without taking damage.
Unfortunately, this just isn’t as impactful as building a deck that burns down the opponent with combinations of phoenix fire, firebomb and the 3/1 that deals 3 damage to each general as its opening gambit. It is painfully slow by comparison.
I think the pay-offs that we have are fine, but it is hurt by that the units attached to this effect just are below the curve. Too much so. Night fiend’s effect is good, but the body for that cost is just not good enough. The other pay-off cards are either really expensive like Variax and obliterate, or they are relatively fragile like the guy that gets a boost for each shadow creep on the board. The darkspine elemental is fun to play with, but again it has a relatively bad statline at 1/4.
What creep needs is another unit that gets a power/toughness boost from shadow creep or some other pay-off card that has a good body attached to it. Or something that extends the game, like an abyssian unit that grants health equal to the amount of shadow creep on the map.
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