Duelyst Forums

Does Duelyst have balance problems?

#1

Hello everybody,
this is the first topic for me to start, I’m a devoted Vetruvian player and I decided to make a post in the view of the upcoming expansion and rotation.

At the moment there’s a generic perception that the metagame is relatively stable (or at least better than pre-Saurian nerf), but there’s something in this game which is still an issue: balance.
I haven’t discovered the hot water, so to say, and what I’m writing I know partially shared by other players too, so I just want to endorse certain opinions and try to give more resonance to this issue hoping to find support from the rest of the community and the developers too.

I think that some factions of Duelyst are more stable and so stronger than the others, meaning that they don’t require to rely on too many neutral cards (like some do…) to function and that their main mechanics and cards interactions allow them to ignore/dodge basic game mechanics/principles.
If this sounds too vague, I’m addressing for example the the need of having some specific neutral cards in a deck just to have a chance to be competitive in the meta (like I do as many Vet player with lots of neutral healing minions, or having T-horn and EMP basically as staples) or - and I really don’t thing it’s cheap to address to factions in particular - the fact that some factions like Songhai can comfortably sit and shoot while becomes too late for you to recover or Magmar that can hit you in face wile buffing, dropping huge unbearable minions and heal massively.

What is your opinion?
Should and will the game be more balanced after the new expansion?

Thanks for reading.

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#2

There are always balance “problems” and there always will be.

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#3

There are some very strong cards indeed, but the meta is balanced as most of the faction have equally powerful tools, one of my least fav meta was the one where phantasm and azure summoning just got nerfed and the new generals where Introduced, the reason why is because the meta has never been more balanced and almost every strategy is fun, it also has bad timing as @eurasianjay just broke mantra at the time.

#4

My point, as I specified in the post, is not the balance in the meta, is the balance in the game which is different. I agree with you on the meta, but that doesn’t take away the fact that some factions have tools that make them more stable than others while I’m arguing that they should all have equally the potential to stand on their own. Not like Vet is doing for example.

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#5

Of course, there’s not such a thing as immutable balance, my point is another: concerning those specific issues I pointed out, will solutions be found making consequently the game more balanced?

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#6

well vanguard says otherwise, like Jesus Christ, as long as your deck is consistent it can win worlds.

#7

What is this vanguard you’re referring to?

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#8

I don’t think that healing neutral minions is a good example as a requirement for some factions over others, as literally any faction can make good use of a healer.

Vetruvian as a faction has less healing than others, it would make sense that they would appreciate the help. But it’s not necessary to win. A couple Aymara healers outdoes any healing that x3 neutrals will do, in addition to dealing damage and providing a good body.

And speaking in general, the factions are relatively balanced, it’s just that outliers often creep up which is inevitable in a game that adds new content.

#9

It’s worth noting that the balance of the meta is directly shaped by the tools the factions have available to them. The reliability of a deck’s performance is typically paramount at the highest levels of play. It’s for this reason you’ll find only a select number of decks performing their way to the top from a select number of factions.

At lower levels of play, you can expect to find all factions are played and the decks they run are more diverse. This is part of the reason I’m always hovering in Silver territory. I enjoy the deck diversity and playing with less optimal decks.

I do agree however, that many factions could use some help on their bottom line. Vetruvian actually recently received a buff in this respect with Blood of Air being moved to the Core Set. It’s a removal tool they desperately need to stay competitive. Every faction has this issue to some degree, but to them it’s about how they can play around it or make this weakness as irrelevant as possible.

For example, Magmar actually has issues with their removal since they can only effectively clear weaker minions easily. This isn’t a problem however since most of their removal is extremely cost efficient or is not single target and they tend to just play aggressively, not relying on their removal so much. Although they recently added Rebuke to their card list so… :man_shrugging:

Either way, my point is that each faction’s tools are shaped by the faction’s identity. They will always have their strengths and weaknesses due to this, but some could absolutely use a little help.

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#10

The balance looks good to me. My only concern is that some factions have objectively better cards than other factions in the core set, which is the foundation which will never rotate out.

I wouldn’t mind a fine-tuning of the core set to ensure the factions are all in a good shape. Introducing a few selected cards from Shimzar into the core set might certainly help, but I don’t think it’s mandatory…

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#11

cardfight vanguard.

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#12

Neutral healers are not a basic requirement for all the factions but for the Vetruvian they are basically necessary, as they heal instantly, not like Aymara.
Lyonar, Magmar and Abyssian have good instant healing cards; Songhai much less, basically only FWMagi and Mantra, but they kill you first before they need healing (unless it’s a mirror match); Vanar shares the problem with Vetruvian but has more effective removals to dissipate threats.
Outliers are there, expansions will bring them up, still there’s structural work that I’m looking forward to be done, something to the core set cards perhaps.

#13

This is the status quo I wish would change. I hope I got you right, but I think it’s wrong that in one season only 2-3 factions are tier-0/1 and some are garbage or almost.

I don’t think I know now what’s the Vetruvian identity. If that would be positioning I see too many ways for the other factions to deal with it relatively easily, making it not the strength of the faction.
I think we agree on the “helping” point, as you pointed out sustained by the Magmar’s removal example(paradox).

#14

Adjusting the core set would be of great help already! And it’s pretty close to what I’d say is a radical change that would balance the game…

#15

Yeah, now I get it. Same as believing in the “heart of cards”.

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#16

Legit the card game is amazingly balanced, there is no meta as there is good decks and slightly worse decks, they have few cards in the F & L list, no set rotation and it’s budget.

It doesn’t have too much depth but it is incredibly fun.

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#17

I highly reccomend trying it out as it’s really fun and the community is really nice.

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#18

I wish Duelyst also was amaizingly balanced :sob: … Gonna dig in that card game, thanks for the mention!

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#19

Yes! I finally have someone to talk to it about! Don’t worry i’m really new to it as well, I have just come to my second vanguard locals last week, and I’m still borrowing someone’s deck.

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#20

I dunno man, Blood of Air is like the ultimate removal card. Vet in general has been getting better and better control while all of Vanar’s control options have been nerfed over time.

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