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Church of the Mankantor (State of Magmar thread 7-9-2017) Unearthed Prophecy

#1

Church of the Mankantor (State of Magmar thread 7-9-2017) Unearthed Prophecy

Disclaimer

This is a MAGMAR thread,It is bias towards Magmar issues.This thread isn’t about the overall health of game but overall health of one faction.You don’t like that Magmar is strong or Magmar player are complaining about the faction even though they are strong this isn’t the place for you.Seriously go start your own thread.

It has been a while but with an expansion coming up in 2 days it is a good time to start back with these threads.So a large chunk of the Magmar cards have been revealed. In Shimzar they had 13 cards per faction so i expect something similar( 7 minions,5 spells,1 artifact) in numbers with them announcing 94 cards for expansion .7 Magmar cards have been shown, but 8 have been revealed (Armada was pixel previewed on twitter) to further breakdown so far 4 Magmar minions are known leaving maybe 3 more to be seen which are probably Epic,Legendary, and Common minions. 3 Magmar spells have shown leaving probably a epic and legendary spell to still be seen.Here is what have been shown

  • Endure the Beastlands is a 3 mana epic spell that “Turn a 2x2 area into Primal Flourish.”

  • Omniseer is a 4 mana 4/5 rare minion with the ability Opening Gambit: Turn a nearby friendly minion’s space into Primal Flourish.

"Primal flourish Friendly minions standing on it have “Grow +2/+2.”

  • Eternal Heart is 1 mana legendary artifact with the ability Your General can’t die.

  • Warpup is a 2 mana 1/1 rare minion with the abilites “Frenzy, Forcefield.”

  • Catalyst Quillbeast is 3 mana 3/4 common minion with the ability “Whenever you cast a spell, deal 1 damage to ALL minions.”

  • Primal Blast is a 2 mana rare spell that “Dispel a space.If there is a minion on that space give it +2/+2”

  • Vaath’s Brutality is 2 mana common spell that “Stun a enemy minion,Give your general +1 attack”

  • Armada (Pixel previewed)

  1. What has been your favorite Magmar card of the release cards?

  2. What are you expecting to see from the remaining cards?

  3. What neutrals do you think will be must add in Magmar decks?

  4. Where do think Magmar’s place will be in meta after the expansion is released?

Any other Magmar related questions,concerns,ideas or decks are free to be talked about in this thread.

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The Church of the Mankantor :Trials of Mythron Magmar Card review
#2

1.What has been your favorite Magmar card of the release cards?

It has been toss up between Omniseer and Eternal Heart.

2.What are you expecting to see from the remaining cards?

I am expecting to see one or two egg support cards,Another Magmar tile card and the Magmar Grandmaster.

3.What neutrals do you think will be must add in Magmar decks?

I think thunderhorn which basically remixed taygete and Magesworn which Magmar can ramp out as early as turn 2 are going to be the main ones.Dagona can be flashed out as 8/6 on turn 6 is a strong play so it might see some play. Also Theobule will be pretty solid in starhorn i think.

4.Where do think Magmar’s place will be in meta after the expansion is released?

After the expansion I think order for the factions will be Vanar,Magmar,Vet,Songhai,Lyonar and Abyss but I can easily see Lyonar, Songhai being very good out of nowhere based on past history.Every faction has looks to be improve but i am little concerned about Abyss.

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#3

It’s a little early to start this thread dontcha think? The UP expansion releases in less than 2 days if it comes out when CP said it would (I can’t remember where I saw this, but I do remember that it was in a topic in regards to the CP-BNEA partnership so i’ll get back to you if or when I find it). So there is a possibility that any speculation made here about metas or strong cards could be proven wrong within the next month or so (depending on the creativity of the community when it comes to card interactions).

Nevertheless, good foresight on creating a thread BEFORE the release of UP. It’ll be an interesting thing to look back on after everything’s cooled down and people are back to saying the devs aren’t doing jack shit.

As for your questions:

  • My fav magmar card has to be Catalyst Quillbeast. Not only does he (it?) provide synergy for twin fang, he also has some deepset implications for the world of duelyst. Why does he react in such a negative way to spells/ magic in general? Was this just a result of genetically inherited survival instincts kicking in or did he have some kind of averse reaction to spells as a result of magic cursing him that way or did some outside force (i’m assuming poachers) modify him in such a way that he now is cursed to expunge lasers from his spine after exposure or what?

I especially enjoy how it can be interpreted as him screaming in pain or a war cry as he does that indicating some sort of duress.

  • I’m actually not expecting to see egg support this turn. At least, not directly that is. We would’ve seen some by now if they intended to do something egg related, but there are still plenty of ways to help keep your eggs from breaking without actually holding them.

We’ll definitely be seeing more cards interacting with spells, positioning, and board manipulation, but as for what I cannot say.

  • We might see a rise in niche cards being used the first few weeks as people bring out what they think they need, but I ecpect we’ll be seeing a return to the old classics soon enough. Saberspine kitty, healing mystic (if only to see the new skin in action), etc… will continue to see use so long as people want a reliable, non-complex course of actions to dictate the outcome of their games. (saber kitty will definitely see play as people scramble to kill the general faster before DOOM is played)

  • Magmar has always been, and will always be, part of the top tier decks. Their rush minions will guarantee that as players can’t do anything about them until AFTER they’re played. Sure you can play around getting makantor clear’d by any number of ways, but you still can’t do anything about it once it’s played as it’ll most likely be played on the opponents turn.

Ah, before I go I have one question to ask you. When you say this:

are you making the thread about healthy as in “how one can improve their lizard game” or how we can make it healthy as in “people have fun playing as and against it?” “how fun each match is?”

Because when you start saying stuff like this:

then it gets confusing. Are you trying to get people to talk about how to strengthen Magmars power against other factions, are you trying to stop them from talking about their weaknesses (I get that having to listen to someone rant about how Magmar couldn’t deal with a corner mechaz0r! can be annoying, but if they provide a valid argument then why shun them from the get-go?), or are you trying to get people to talk about how to make the faction as fun as possible (which i’m heavily biased towards btw)?

So in short, what do you mean by the health of the faction?

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#4

The disclaimer that is simple.Magmar start as controlish faction and after couple of expansion Magmar got very good aggro options. So basically Magmar was arguably the best deck in the game but a large amount of Magmar players would be in the thread complaining because the playing style they prefer to play was not viable.

The disclaimer is there for that reason we would run into alot of omg Magmar players are whiny you guys are so good what do you have to complain about .For all intents purpose this thread isn’t about making the game well balanced it is more about improving the Magmar experience overall.That doesn’t mean we don’t want a well balanced game we want that too but this thread above improving Magmar in general. So like right now Vaath is one of the top 2 generals i think most Magmar players would like to Rebirth or Grow flesh out into more competitive decks. To make very simple " We going to whine about Magmar even though Magmar is very good"

Health of the faction,You want to see the the main styles Control, Mid range, Aggro and Combo.Also you want to see the faction’s keywords and themes utilize well like Growth, Rebirth, Rush,Self Damage, Artifacts,etc.You can be good faction for example Vaath and Starhorn have competitive decks but the health of faction could be way better control and zoo style archetype being available to use in competitive play

Never to early to talk about Magmar beside i use to do this thread nearly every month

I have been playing Magmar long enough to know that is not true we had same rush package and Magmar was one of the worse faction in the game.Your statement is now more true because Magmar got thumping wave(and couple other cards cough cough Lavaslasher) and that card cover up so many holes for Magmar but this is duelyst where bad match can murder you . I remember Songhai murdering Magmar at something like 70 to 30 rate is some metas.It was ugly.Oh yeah Starhorn Decimus or Spikes away from being useless again

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#5

  1. Warpup is probably my favourite, although not the best revealed card for Magmar. I think Omniseer and Quillbeast are both ahead of Warpup.

  2. Rebirth support to some extent. What has been shown so far shows a lot of grow, tile and spell synergy type cards. I want to predict something (since I predicted a grow type artifact correctly last time) but I can’t imagine what kind of rebirth card can come out. Since we already got an artifact, minion and spell to go with them. So maybe just a rebirth minion at the 5 slot since we have stuff from 1-4 mana.

  3. I’ll need to go through the neutrals, can’t remember what has been shown so far.

  4. Its hard to imagine Magmar not being near the top, but I think it will depend on the power of Songhai to fully determine the place. I’ll still say being in top 3 though.

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#6

Warpup is going to win games by himself. Trust me.

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#7

Its primal ballast not blast you vet in disguise

Warpup is a nice alternative to battlepet 2 drops and the cutest baby makantor

Vaaths brutality will be seen more in starhorn than vaath( other than vaath smash decks)

Im still hoping that magmar gets a grandmaster

Eternal heart will be in rush mar decks so your elucidator lethals wont be an elucidator suicide

Endure the beastlands will become a staple in grow decks

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#8
  1. Had a look through the neutrals that have been revealed so far now. I think Wild Tahr could work, but it’ll be hard to put it into a deck over Ragebinder and Tiger. Thunderhorn could possibly make it in as well, however at 4 mana there is Drogon, Taygete, Claws, Earth Sphere, Egg Morph, Thumping Wave, Elucidator to be in competition with. So if it is as OP as people think it is, then making it into a Magmar list will show how good it is. Also think Letigress can have a chance at the 5 mana slot in a very face/aggro deck since the cubs with rush can help keep bringing the damage through or help setup Warbeast. Theobule for Starhorn Decimus deck, could be very powerful but you’ll have to risk sending Decimus out at 4 mana and then Theobule the following turn or waiting until 9 mana.

Komodo Hunter, I’m on the fence about. Its very powerful stats, but I’m not the kind of person who wants to be giving minions to the other person with the every faction having a way to remove it for the same cost or less (except Magmar due to Natural Selection having to hit your own Komodo Chargers).

So out of them I’ll say Wild Tahr is the mostly likely to make its way into decks, and Theobule will certainly be tried in Decimus Starhorn. I’ll be trying out Letigress in Magmar because I like trying fun looking cards. Thunderhorn has a lot of competition so could be hard for him, and Komodo Hunter will probably be played by others because its a 5/6 for 3 mana.

#9

Overall, I’m not very impressed with the revealed cards. Certainly there are some like quillbeast that you can build specific decks around, which I appreciate. The tiles are nice, but do little to support grow as a keyword other than the obvious synergy with Molokai.

I think the devs saw just how strong Magmar was this recent expansion and wanted to tone it down a bit (I do not foresee us getting anything as strong as trygon, for example). That’s understandable, and I think that any of the unrevealed cards will likely cater to niche playstyles in a subtle way, I really hope that after catalyst burst got dumpstered that eggmar will get some support. There’s still time for them to surprise reveal it!

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#10

Vaath’s Brutality is a game changer. Now we get to have like six attack by t3? Nice.

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#11

Good luck getting there with how common dispel is going to be.

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#12

OK - so here is my try to foresee the future of Magmar.
First going through the cards we know so far along with a rating from 1 (bad) to 10 (superior):

- Catalyst Quillbeast: Combo card for Twin Fang and a swarm counter. So how does it work? Twin Fang + Quillbeast + Spell. A 3 card combo having a 2/3 on board afterwards. Why should this be played over Skorn (which gives one more proc, a better body and cost 1 card less)? I give it a 4/10.
- Vaath’s Brutality: Probably a good card especially for Starhorn. Remember it’s not triggering Drogon but, of course, it synergizes. More procs are always good and Stun has it’s use for shure (while, for me, it’s kind of a Vanar Keyword). Coming with a fair cost, so it gets 5/10 for Vaath and 7/10 for Starhorn (since getting 3 or more attack makes a big difference).
- Primal Ballast: Absolutely unshure about this card. As a buff it’s a worse Greater Fortitude. As a dispell it has a big downside so it probably will not replace any of the dispels we have so far. I cannot judge the card so far. Maybe the Church will find a good use of it that I don’t see now. Very good use with the new Fish-Beast. I’m not impressed at the moment but no rating so far.
- Warpup: I love that we get another Frenzy Minion just because of all the complaints about it. In vacuum this card is a usable swarm counter, that’s all. With buffs it’s a beast and probably hated for it’s aggression. All in all pretty useless without buffs so it’s a combo card. Why playing it over Funsteel? I don’t see me playing it at the beginning but if it turns out good - why not? 6/10 plus one point for the sprite.
- Eternal Heart: May buy you a turn. It’s pretty much an Earth Sphere. The downside is that it’s soooo situational and can be hard-countered by a 2-Drop. It will not help you against Swarm and Spellhai or if your opponent has a board. I think Earth Sphere is the all around better card. The big upside of Eternal Heart is it’s cost of course. You can play this and a fattie in one turn while Earth Sphere is always a tempo loss. Useless if Rusty is a Tech - but I don’t see this at the moment. I think it will find it’s way into the decks for some weeks and then be cutted for not being consistent enough. 6/10

And now to the tile cards:

I will not judge them at this point because I really can’t tell how the whole tile-thing will work out.
While getting a +2/+2-Buff on a Minion or two is really something your opponent can’t ignore, he always has a full move to simply remove the Minion from the tile and there are hundreds of ways to do this. On the good side: 2 Mana for a 2x2 area seems not to be overcosted. But can we manage to get value out of it?
With the anti-positioning-tools Vanar and Songhai have the tile mechanic seems to be pretty useless against them. And expecting Vanar being even more ahead then the last 3 months (look at the Sentinel-Cards they have!) it’s questionable if we have much fun with our new tiles.
The Sentinels seem to me overall much better then the tile-mechanic. Even if conditional they get so much value out of three Mana (lategame they can be spammed out) so I don’t think any of the new Tiles are close to even, maybe the Vetruvian one.

I have to come to an end while I didn’t take a look at the neutrals so far. Overall I’m more impressed by them then by the revealed Magmar cards. I’m excited trying out Flash + Dagona (+ Primal Ballast), I hate Thunderhorn design-wise but I think he will be very efficient and I really want to see LeTigress work in a Vaath-Deck!

Overall my text reads not very positive but it’s not supposed to be a rant. I’m just not that impressed. We have some fair cards, more to be revealed. But I don’t see any card where I would say: “Yeah! That’s the one I was waiting for!” I feel Magmar (as a faction) gets nerfed (a bit - not much) by the expansion and I think they (CPG) would do better nerfing cards instead if they think it’s necessary.
And I don’t get why they push Vanar as if they was not the best faction for 3 months now.

We most probably will still have a good spot in the Meta (we’ll probably ever have since we have a lot of tools and good Minions overall). But I’m not hyped in the way I wish I would be.
And I’d rather have Sentinels for Tiles because they seem sooo much stronger to me.
And no Egg-Support? That’s a stinker!

Maybe I’m too pessimistic and there are still some cards we don’t know. I’m happy to get a new expansion and am exited to see new decks. But as for Magmar I think the old decks will be the new (after try-and-error-Meta settled).

So, yeah. Ambivalent.

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#13

Magmar News 7-11-2011 BandaiNamco put some stuff up and they spoil a little of new expansion stuff

The pictures show new Magmar spell and Unit.The New unit looks to be a 7/7 and most people assume it has forcefield because of the picture.My theory on the picture is the Magmar unit took Forcefield from Frostiva and forcefield you see around the general is minion immunity from Matron Elevti .

#14

I’m hoping for Egg-support mostly in the unrevealed cards. (Otherwise why nerf Chrysalis?)
Most of the cards and effects for Magmar itself feel ‘ok’ this expansion and the ones revealed for theo ther factions kick Magmar in the teeth (ignoring Plasma and Warbeast leaves most strong cards with 1 hp left, etc…)

#15

That’s part of my conspiracy. Most of the 4 and above mana minions have 5 health this expansion. They are intentionally limiting the power of Makantor, Holy Immo and 2/3 minion + general attack removal.

#16

That’s not conspiracy it is balance instead of nerfing Lavaslasher and Mankantor. They are raising level of competitive minions( aka power creep )which is fine for now becuz they didn’t have a lot of playable minions in competitive play .

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#17

I don’t think it stole Elevti’s ability. If you look closely, Vaath does not have the blue particles that Kara has. The 7/7 most likely only steals Keywords, or else it might be too overpowered.

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#18

Or it just gives forcefield to a nearby friendly unit.

#19

This, is likely possible.

For what it’s worth, duelyst is a young game and has a lot of growing to do. While I still believe balance patches are necessary even at a young age, it will take a while for the game and its meta to fall into a comfortable place. Once it’s there, it’s easier to balance individual cards that may be causing problems.

#20

AND…there is no egg support. Which makes that unwarranted destruction of Chrysalis Burst all the more infuriating, turned a rarely used card to a unusuable one.

Of the new cards, I like the Evolutionary Apex, interesting potential vs the spell-heavy Vanar and Songhai, who I predict will be in much use in the new meta.

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