Omg, thanks for pointing it out, I left out an “if”. Sorry, typing with a phone atm.
You thought Songhai was OP before?
Now, that is taking it a little to far. Zirix can be played for aggro, midrange and board-dominion with dervishes, and be able to hit almost anything with a wind dervish+shroud. It is still not quite top tier and the nerf was very painful, but Reva is generally less worrying for the archetype than Abyssians.
I think one of the things people should note in this is exactly how many battles, wins and losses each general has. Something interesting to note is that Reva is the most played general than Vaath by 33 games, and then followed by Argeon, Faie, then Cassyva (followed by Zirix). Another thing is while Cassyva has almost 1000 less games played than Reva and Vaath, she still has an overall better winrate than Vaath and Argeon, who both had more wins than her. Based on the number of matches/battles they have recorded, I would assume that the data is at the very least from gold. @orthoceras and @kingw do bring up good points regarding Kaleos being on the exact opposite of the spectrum in relation to Reva though.
On another note, has anyone else feel like Vaath is on the rise? I’m currently sitting in rank 2-3 diamond, and have been coming across almost 80% Magmar, particularly Vaath. This could also explain why Vaath is in the top 3 in regards to general winrate.
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i climbed to diamond post vet siphon energy nerf, honestly its slightly harder and the nerf was unnecessary but vet is not dead. We also need to keep in mind this is CP first card game and its still early on they dont necessarily make all the best decisions but they are trying. We also need to remember that the next expansion comes out in December and I would not be surprised if vet gets some sort of removal in that.
51% winrate is a huge margin. Most professional MtG players have a 45%-52% winrate. 52% winrate is absolute tournament domination during a season. That said, I’d be very skeptical about this list because of how recent the changes were. Def see Zirix plummeting and Kara climbing.
The statistics refer to averages, not individual players.
xD That’s still a chasm of a margin. No General should exceed a 52% winrate. Because that means they get a high number of “free wins”, IE, times where they win because their opponent can’t produce any meaningful tension with them.
What? Where are you getting these assertions from? I see no reason to assume that a significant number of matches aren’t hard-fought just because a deck’s win percentage is over %52. If there’s any rationale here please show me how it works.
It’s pretty simple. In an ideal game, all players of equal skill have a 50% win rate against one another. While players having equal skill is not something that can be quantified, generally there is a threshold, a display of skill that reduces the sample to only players with relatively similar skill. When players of relatively similar skill play, a swing of 1-2% is in tolerance to choices, risks, RNG, etc. is reasonable because the game has a crazy amount of moving pieces. The general represents an artificial archetype within the game, (and contains multiple archetypes within it.) When an MtG archetype is dominant, it’s often by just a few %.
The big issue with this particular image, is however that the control is a function of time, not the number of games played. There are SIGNIFICANTLY more games with Vaath, Reva and Argeon than any of the other generals. Where the other results are less likely to be entirely accurate.
Another thing to point out from this (slightly off topic), is that while Ziran has a higher win rate than Kaleos, Sajj, and Starhorn, she is the least played out of all the generals. I feel like Heal lyonar could have some hidden potential that hasn’t been found yet, but thats my take on it 
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Having no numbers is better than having bad numbers. And given the sample size and how these were collected I think these are bad numbers.
Getting burned down by Songhai in turn 6/7 is the dumbest, most unfun experience I ever had in any card game I ever played. Since I do not care about my rank (made it to Gold and Diamond is too hard with my mediocre decks), every time I queue up against Reva I simply concede because my free time I too precious for this nonsense.
You’re not seeing the big picture. Look at the games played. There are exactly 2 Generals with over 3000 games Played. Reva, and Vaath. In other words, Reva Spellhai, and the general that counters her. Despite being a counter and having a similar amount of games played, Reva still has a higher win %.This means that Spellhai is able to outrun even decks meant to counter her.
Avoiding a matchup isn’t the best way to learn how to win a mtachup, but do as you wish.[quote=“narasimha, post:74, topic:5225”]
Vaath. In other words, Reva Spellhai, and the general that counters her
[/quote]
Since when is Magmar the counter to spellhai? Wtf? Spellhai is if anything one of magmars weaker matchups.
Since… well, since almost always? Magmar has good healing, sticky minions, ramps, ranged removal, and a general that isn’t afraid to get in Reva’s face. Vaath has always been a good counter to Spellhai.
If you play a class without healing the only way to win this matchup is pray that Songhai does not drop Lantern Fox on curve and draws into none of his Phoenix Fires… and no Inner Focus… and no Killing Edge.
Not entirely accurate anymore, bc Thumping Wave slightly improved the matchup, but here you go.[quote=“ezekeel, post:77, topic:5225, full:true”]
If you play a class without healing the only way to win this matchup is pray that Songhai does not drop Lantern Fox on curve and draws into none of his Phoenix Fires… and no Inner Focus… and no Killing Edge.
[/quote]
Yeah. Sure. Really do what you want, it’s not my problem, but Songhai isn’t as straightforward and unbeatable as you think.
Then tell me how you beat it and which cards I need, then we take a look at my very limited card collection and both have a good laugh.
Getting Dioltas is a good start, Pimus Shieldmaster also works. You can also go Lyonar, Ironcliffe is pretty damn good and by saving up spirit you can go for aegis barrier + cliffe.
Here you go, a ‘FCK SNGH’ budget list. Hf. Is also viable in other matchups. If anyone who is better with lyonar than i am could improve this we could make an offical ‘help vs songhai’ thread or something.
Oh, prolly run Sojo’s in place of something 
I applaud your skepticism, but without numbers these threads are exceedingly anecdotal. Nobody seems to put in the effort to explicate at what ranks they’re playing, nor are they tracking their actual win rates and compiling them in threads like these. I don’t know if these numbers are bad, they seem to be as reliable as anything I’ve seen on a site like HearthPwn, just with a smaller sample size and less variables.
They might be bad numbers, but how can you tell? I’m not having trouble with Songhai in particular, why would your anecdotes be more convincing than mine? If there’s someone here willing to make a well thought-out Google Form or something so we can survey each month I’d be glad to participate.
Did I claim that Reva doesn’t seem to be the best General right now?
Many gamers that bother to sign up for sites like Duelysthub take laddering seriously and will swap decks in accordance with what they believe is the state of the current meta. If everyone here and on the subreddit is clamoring that Reva is the new flavor of the month it’s not going to be surprising if you see an upsurge of players playing her or her counters (and the reverse is true as well). I’d love to see the numbers over a larger period of time to see if we had similar surges for Vaath, Cassyva and Zirix in the past few months when they were the Generals that were supposedly dominating the meta.
All I’m questioning here is the proportionality of the outcry, and trying to do so with methods that are less likely to be determined by someone’s personal experience of losing 6 matches in a row against the hot new net deck. Thousands of matches get played each day, discussions in threads like this one consist of like a dozen people (I didn’t actually count).
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