Duelyst Forums

You thought Songhai was OP before?

#22

I don’t think Ranged decks are going to become prevalent just because one faction can’t easily deal with them anymore. If Songhai and Vetruvian were the only two factions than I could see the arguments being made here. I tried to make them work a lot when I first started playing. But as a Songhai player myself, I’m not thinking “Oh man! Widowmaker is amazing now!” Range got a tiny bit better but not better enough to build a deck around.

I think the bigger concern is cards like Four Winds Magi. I’m not sold on how that will work. It might be we have the first Leyline of Sanctity (the MTG card that hoses all burn decks with no real way to answer) situation here. I didn’t particularly like those situations in MTG. As I said in the patch notes thread, Vet is going to change. Perhaps Prophet of the White Palm will see some play in Vet decks now to buy time while they close the gap. Who knows. But many (not all) of the time we’ve gotten up in arms over seemingly ill thought out changes by the devs, they’ve proven to know what they are doing OR they’ve been an intermediary step towards a new direction that gradually came to light over time. I started playing in July. I think the game is better today than it was then. Has it gone up and down some? Yes. But it’s heading in a interesting and fun direction.

I love the fact that the devs believe a faction can be viable without global removal. We may not be there just yet, but the fact they are even trying it, is a step in the right direction.

I do sympathize with the Vet players in the meantime, though. You guys have had a rough road lately.

4 Likes
#23

Tbh I want to share your optimism, but how things are handled… they’re really questionable.

Sorry but I haev to disagree. Best example? Vetruvians. This faction used to be Godlike and I agree, they have to be tuned down. Back then when i was a newbie, portal guardians used to be ridiculously overpowered, as well as time maelstorm (basically a free turn late game). They got nerfed. Then star’s fury that was used to fish lethal or board clears for 4 mana out of nowhere got nerfed. I remember Scion’s third wish was used for face and it got nerfed to give minions blast, and it got nerfed, again. Blast minions got the nerf bat as well. And what did CPG gave in return from all these changes? Nothing, they literally nerfed the class and the cards that gave them their identity and gave nothing in return.

Then came the bbs. Where Zirix had a ridiculous bbs that spawns a 2-2 rush dervish taht can be buffed. obviously it was ridiculous and got nerfed. Isnt it sad that a control based faction had only one viable archetype - aggro after all the endless nerfings?

Shimzar came and brought it out of the slums. But they didnt fix the inherent problems the faction had and the identity crisis it had. It used to be a devish spawning God that can fish lethal in its early stages from what I’ve heard. It then became an arbsurdly powerful faction that abuses range with blast. But now their removals are only available when they’re in point blank range? Like is it a faction that excels in range or point blank range subjugation? Shimzar brought light to them not by fixing their problems, but by giving them a few power creeped cards. Pax, falcius and nimbus. Although they were proven not to be as insane as they were , pax with negligible value, nimbus being too slow and falcius seemed like an overtuned card that was much needed for vets to comeback.

And another example? Songhai. That faction has been consistently sitting in tier 1 position for so long it’s not even funny. Why? Because that faction has insane out of hand damage, uninteractive play style as they dont really care about the board, strong efficient minions that demand removal.

People demanded a nerf and they finally nerfed them, but the wrong card. Saberspine seal wasnt broken and was kinda of fine. Inner focus, mask, four winds, fox were kinda the problems with them. But nope, they picked saberspine seal to nerf combohai when the dominant one was spellhai.

Not saying I dont trust them or I hate them. But with this patch and how off the mark they are with these balance changes and reading the situation, I am just kinda worried and lost. I do hope future changes can bring light to this because as it is, vets are unplayable.

3 Likes
#24

I read this. I’m now happy I can drop my 4wings and you can’t do shit about that! haha whaddayasay?
Might as well be flippin the bird to all vetruvian players bra.

#25

I feel odd quoting myself, but I apologize if I wasn’t clear here. I do not see a Vet answer for Four Winds Magi. Period. Hence the comparison to Leyline of Sanctity. This is a BIG problem. There is no gloating or spite here. Sorry if it came across that way. I do not want “auto win” cards to exist even if they are in my favorite faction.

If it matters, I have never played Baconator and I only played Spellhai a few games to understand how it works. I have never been one for playing meta decks, and I would like to see a reduction in Songhai’s out of hand damage (especially now that Kineticats are gone).

#26

Watch the disrespect. If I didn’t have any idea who you are, I’d have verbally gutted you.

1 Like
#27

I’m in lower tier but agreed, Songhai needs quick nerfhammering because it looks like all tiers are struggling with certain songh-flavored cheese.

#28

There’s a difference between “answer or die” and “dispel or die”. Dispel is not good at dealing with late game threats. It works best vs low stated minions with powerful abilities or minions that have been buffed. It is actually less effective against fatties like ironcliffe, pre-nerf kron, or even pandora because it leaves the body behind. So “dispel or die” refers more to the four winds magis, the killing edged heartseekers, the buffed azurite lions, the giant abyssal juggernauts, all of which want to hurt your face rather than waste time clearing the board.

Moreover, even with more general “answer or die” term, the issue is the speed of the clock that minions put you on. Slithar elder becomes unanswerable to single target removal after one turn and so if you don’t have the answer in hand or enough burn to finish the game you’re probably done for. Pandora is slower than that. Hearthstone’s Ysera is slower than even that since it gives you cards each turn rather than minions already in play. And in a crazy aggressive deck like aggrohai four winds and heartseekers quickly become repeated tests of “answer this right now or die”. The faster the clock of any threat the more aggressive the game is and the less time there is for a player to make a comeback.

Finally, facing a board swarm would be less of a problem if board clear wasn’t undertuned. But it is, because CP wants fast games, and the global board clear effects are kind of obnoxious when they’re too strong.

2 Likes
#29

I just S-ranked, and I’ve never found the game as boring as it is right now. I feel really limited in what I can play due to how oppressive Reva is- I have to fully tech out vs Reva.

Ironically that might have actually helped me S-rank, because everyone else is just as limited, and what I play is good against what they play at that pace.

That said, I wish I could actually play some of the more interesting cards instead of having to go boring zerg speed. It’s just not very fun right now.

2 Likes
#30

CPG doesn’t care. They’d rather release new shiny expansions to leech our wallets than make the game balanced.

Brb dusting my Lyonar decks to make Spellhai. If you can’t beat them, join them.

#31

Jesus. I mean sure Songhai is very good right now and even got slightly buffed with the patch, but it’s not as bad as you guys make it seem to be.

Well, except for Vet that is i guess.

#32

Game is fine, stop whining and start adapting!

1 Like
#33

I guess that when you invest all your capability into a faction and starts to build an emotionnal link with a faction, it’s natural that your heart bleeds when a change destabilisize the relationship.

1 Like
#34

That’s true for so many things in life, but time heals everything. And if you do it right, you’ll emerge stronger and better than before!

#35

No I am sorry but the overall effect of the patch is more than a slight buff.

I did :innocent: I play songhai spell hai.

Personally, I have every cards in the meta, I can play any competitive deck and have no emotional link towards any faction what so ever (I have 2 rebons for every faction and 3 for abyssian). And still I think the meta is horrible because the only deck that seems good is reva spell hai.

4 Likes
#36

Keyword here is seems. When you will realize it’s not you will live better

#37

Its kinda hard to evaluate which kind of adjective is approprirate to describe the impact of the buff and its rather irrelevant i’d say. At least we agree it’s a buff.

#38

I don’t think that shongai deck was op but too many powerfull without a balanced cost of spell cards. It happens that i lost some duels when my general have 15 or more health and my oppenent use the draw of 3 cards spell and then a super combo tha give him an attack power higer than my life when the next turn will die witout any doubt(he had 4 or less life). I like the idea of a powerfull combo but he needs to have an high cost and be strategic and luckly

#39

meta is how you feel about it- only way CPG will listen is if folks stop spending money or stop playing.

I do feel the Kron nerf kinda helps against Songhai by making it easier to tech vs that, so you can concentate entirely on Reva, but having to concentrate entirely on one general for the meta is very dull, and I would recommend other games over Duelyst if this doesn’t change.

#40

nope.

this meta is literally:

reva

and

things that counter reva.

thats literally why argeaon, and vaath sit so highly, but its also important to note reva sees like double the play those two do, and still keeps up a high win rate despite everyone and their mother teching against them.

2 Likes
#41

Spellhai is the best deck now (duelysthub.com). 2% more win rate than the second best is a gap. Maybe a keshrai fanblade-like has to move as a 3/5 in neutral pool. But, Songhai signature and spellhai has to live unchanged in my opinion.