If i cant slholyimmo at 4 mana anymore then no other 0 mana minions should exist!
Vetruvian is killing duelyst
@deathsadvocate: Rae as a default 0 mana minion gives a not needed tempo advantage to the archetype making it op, while Kha is just a broken card that really hurts one specific archetype/playstyle. When it was meta warping as you said, the combo with Fault wasnât perceived as negatively as it is now, so perhaps itâs a matter of perspective when comes to figure out which one should be nerfed, if Rae or Kha. I actually like the way it shuts down Vaath, and I probably am biased saying this, but considering that the match-up Vaath-Vet usually was in favour of the Magmar general, feels refreshing seeing that thereâs a proper Vet answer now to go-face-eternal healing-Vaath.
One little change Iâd like for Kha is to not be a Dervish any more, just a minion, so at least Dervish buffs wouldnât make it stronger than it is.
@terrarius, about the general counter: Itâs a very specific case. I mean, only couple of generals are really effected by Kha in the way you underline, and I think this is just the case where some archetypes are particularly strong/weak against other archetypes.
Guys. Guys.
You all are correct, both interactions are problematic. Competing who gets to lick more wounds is stupid. Both of the cards needs to be toned down.
That said, a weird proposal for Kha:
Mana cost: from 5 to 4
Dying Wish: a random friendly Devirsh disappears, placing a 0-costed Khanuum-Ka in your hand at the end of your turn.
Devirsh sacrifice for effective immortality, kept, but toned down potential hyperclear/Vaath-killing by limiting basically to however many Harvey Birdmans you can juggle in your hand.
5 Likes
I say we buff Kha⌠to a 3/5.
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I donât remember it being meta warping, I never saw it on ladder and the only time I saw it in tournaments was when i was playing your deck a couple of times during team wars
what about nerfing it to 3/2
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What i dont like about vet is the exhuming sand mechanic. All other type of tiles need an ally/enemy to be on it while exhuming sand tiles generate value every turn. Instead of generating dervishes (dervish support is almost too much) i would prefer it to be something like a sand trap, for example blockinf enemies moves or lower theirs attack.
6 Likes
Then we saw different things. Khas mere existence has warped things since his release. And fault was never a problem before him.
@atheistmantis Vet was not as dominant overall thus people did not complain as much. It still âreallyâ affected certain things that were normally good counters to the deck, pushing them out of the meta, letting things like Rag rise even farther to the top. Just because it was not complained about as much did not make it less of a problem, and how it affects those decks has a massive negative cascade effect on everything else. Plus of course is still really not fair to them which alone is cause enough to examine the issue.
In a vacuum kha is a problem, and when applied turned out even worse. Where as the others have been historically strong but never unhealthy.
The two together are what hurt duelyst. Alongside ziran, they form a triad which shuts many decks out of the meta, as teching for one usually means you lose to the other two.
Ex. -
Wanderer = beat by outvaluing them with greed or silly backline threats --> lose to vet
Vet = burn them to a crisp before they can get rolling, spam cheap aoe to slow their golem starts, and spread threats out to minimize boa/reader value --> lose to ziran
Ziran = beat with big minions --> lose to vet
Very few decks hold even matchups against this trinity, let alone holding favorable matchups against one or two without being heavily unfavored vs the remainder.
Add to the fact that all three decks also have particularly forgiving skill floors, and you have a rough meta on your hands.
4 Likes
Yep , the rock paper scissors aspect mixed with RNG crapshoot issues has lead to the second worst meta of all time short of October reva.
Donât forget because half of those, kha in particular, push out the natural rag counters mixed with him being similarly over-tuned to Ziran it further exasperates the issue.
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True. Only deck I can think of which holds even with all three is midrange kaleos, and he significantly harder to pilot than any of the top dogs.
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Real talk, who other than you, me or tm even play Kaleos (not ox).
Moggin will occasionally play non-ox kaleos, and Smarty, though he plays a scarzig-centric combo list which really shouldnât be considered midrange. No one else plays true midKal anymore. Too many 200iq plays in the midgame despite it getting all those bandit + wreath play handicaps.
Shame, too. Heâs got so many options now for early tempo and late game.
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I do not agree on Healyonar, itâs pretty difficult to play properly.
Disagree. Drawing more than one cleric, or playing a cleric t2/3 boosts winrate on a level almost on par with a wanderer drawing flash. Ziran is complex, but her floor is a joke if youâre running draining wave and such. You literally can just smorc like an aggro deck while having all the heal and sustain of a gold-standard control list.
4 Likes
Kaleos is the best General! ALL HAIL KALEOS!!! (until he dies in the next expansionâŚ)
I misinterpret the word âfloorâ, so yeah, now I agree.
Even I can play ZirâAn to some success, that means the floor is not really high 
Now youâre just self-deprecating 
Floor is a relative term. A low floor does not necessarily a braindead deck make.
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No, Iâm not. Iâm not a pro player by any means, so what I say is quite representative of the deckâs power.