New strat then for me to fix my own back
Slowdecking the new wincon?
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I wish our turns were twice as long as they are. Why so impatient?
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So, just a blanket question…
When you’ve played thousands of matches and are running a deck you know inside and out, and your opponent is taking their turn, do you just turn your brains off or what? Most of my decks (and frankly just about all the ones I see posted) have win conditions and synergy and after your initial replaces, a lot of it is locked into place with only a few variables. I mean, come on… why are we acting like this is rocket science. Yes, there are some complicated strategies but the things I’m seeing happen are not complicated. It’s usually someone fishing for an overly complicated combo so they can try to go lethal out of hand… Use your tools, set up the board and pray to RNGesus that you can replace into the deck’s intended flow.
As to people talking about the math… and time… I dunno about everyone else but finding an hour to play is doable… 2 a stretch… and 3 … it starts to get stale at that point. Time your matches and your play time. I am going to guess most of you who are chastising me don’t realize how much time you spend here… or… don’t have anything else going on in your lives so it’s not an issue.
Either way, this topic picked up a little traction but it’s pretty clear that mine is not a popular view so I’ll just keep spamming emotes when my opponent drags the timer out from T1 on.
yeah, I look at something else when they are taking their turn ususally, unless it is a tournament, or a really close game, in which case I’ll concentrate more.
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This is most likely due to an internet failure. During such a failure, cursor movement is possible, emotes are possible, but other actions, such as movement, minion summon, spell cast, and replacing, are not. A player can only wait and pray in such circumstances. And yes, it can very well happen in T1.
You can’t be so hasty to immediately label others as trolls when you’re unaware of other reasons why the opponent could be taken so long. Both players are given 90 seconds, and it’s not like you’re given any less. Please understand you have no right to force others to match your pacing. Be more patient.
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Yo have to admit tho, some of those finality players back in the day take up the whole timer just trying to play plasma or rebuke. 
As if there was any other play for them to make when i’m 5 minions ahead.
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As I see it there is a simple check people are avoiding in this topic for fear of sounding rude: Are you, like, in silver? If so, its almost guaranteed that its just you who wont notice that there are in fact options in a turn. Battle against a top player, both of you with the exact same deck quality, and I’m willing to bet, you (and I alike) would lose consistently.
Curve, BBS refresh, mana tiles, cards left, action bar, replacing, positioning and trading, and probably more stuff Im not even aware of may not be as straight forward as they seem.
Ive no intention of sounding rude- I also sometimes play fast and get impatient. And (though I like to think its because I love meme decks) the fact that Ive been stuck in gold for a bunch of seasons now is indicative that Im blind to important game elements.
For example, pro players (probably) know exactly what deck the opponent is playing, and carefully track how many copies of important cards the opponent has used, same for their own cards, etc etc, to try and predict what the opponent has in their action bar, and calculate risk accordingly. Do you do that? I know I dont do that as thoroughly as I should, cause I dont know what the hell is up with the meta all the time. Why is the ladder flooded with Kaleos lists
Something that inverted the situation for me, and probably would for you as well, was just playing a Fang/Rage list- I always occupy full turns with that.
edit: Not saying the opponent isnt taking longer than they should, cant really know that without watching the replays from their perspective, but Im saying there IS reason to play slowly, and you probably could use some of that
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I’m rank 12 currently and have not been able to sit down for more than 2 matches every few days over the last couple of weeks. I genuinely don’t have the time. I have been much higher in the past (gold) when my schedule was more open and I was more excited about the game. I am aware of the things you mention but that style of play has zero appeal to me. It is also riddled with assumptions. Does their deck use 1,2,or 3 copies of those cards? Are they going to drop an EMP? What if they play a Worldcore? What if they’ve had shitty RNG luck all game and are bluffing a handful of early play??? This is a joke… Yeah, top players might benefit from that level of scrutiny but come on, we’re talking about a freemium game with a dwindling playerbase. I’ve personally always preferred speed chess. Yes, you can make catastrophic mistakes but testing someone’s instinctual skills and adaptability is far more enticing to me than someone’s ability to remember and guess at variations in card skill. You and many others are seeing this as a lack of understanding on my part and assume me to be simple-minded I suppose. I think it’s almost the opposite. People who rely that much on hand-wringing before committing to a play are burying themselves under probable outcome and a myriad of potential scenarios that in most cases are inconsequential. Your opponent will play a creature, mana ramp, removal, positioning, or control. Anticipating these things and reacting is the real game for me. So, assume that I’m slow-witted, short-sighted, or simply don’t grasp the deeper mechanics… that’s fine, I’m assuming the same when my opponent takes drawn out turns and still loses… as I’ve said repeatedly.
Just to reiterate: I’m not complaining about situations where there players have a lot of mana available, their hands full of cards and/or an actual board state – I’m all for thinking and considering and playing carefully in such situations – but stuff like P1T1 taking 90 seconds to drop a Healing Mystic, 0-1 mana left, empty hands or only 1 card in hand (post replacing), etc and having to use their full turn timer to play a single card or make a single attack or move a single minion.
My experience is based on Gold / Diamond and the (sadly) no-longer existing unranked. And I’ve seen a couple of S-rankers (which I played against while in Gold, for reasons™ ( My personal opinion is that the game should never match players across two leagues but, eh. ) agonizing their P1T1 play and every single turn thereafter.
I keep track of that as it is being played, i.e. the opponent’s turn.
Again, I do that during the opponent’s turn as they are playing.
In fact, I usually know exactly what I’m going to do during my turn.
I’ll just leave this (somewhat tongue-in-cheek):
<<…>>
Since I’m back in diamond (and have no intention (aka not the patience) of grinding to S), I’ll just treat ranked as I did unranked:
- play whacky decks
- concede against the more annoying (meta) decks
- EITHER match notorious “Snails” in playspeed (like - do my entire turn, than wait 30-50 seconds before hitting ‘end turn’)
- OR just concede and play someone else
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Dude, you sit there after doing everything you could have done in a turn and needlessly let the timer go. Why though?
Frankly most of the time I wish the opponent would take longer turns so I have more time. I like to really analyze as much as I can each turn about a whole host of things, as well as sometimes running a quick statistic to see how likely something is to occur and take a proper calculated risk. I try to play a couple turns ahead so even after finishing a move I need time to think about the next one.
And all the more so when your in a losing position, while sure you may often lose, the longer you take to think the more likely you are to find an out or something to at least minimize how far behind you are.
I signed up for a deep intensive strategy game, and I loath speed chess, but rather enjoy Asynchronous game-play. While I am a good player, I am a very slow player, if I move quickly I make mistakes, and as the OP has been pointing out they often seem meaningless, but at least in high tier play you need to find every edge you can to win. Small things add up over the course of the game, and without having the time to weigh probabilities playing optimally is difficult. Plus duelyst has a ton of depth, and even if your short on time or not playing very high on the ladder, why wouldent you want to play the best that you can, learn as much as you can.
And frankly I am not in a hurry, I like long games, the longer they are the more epic they tend to be. I like to enjoy a game, not stress through grinding or turn timers, but really enjoy each match and make sure you really played the best you can.
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I usually do my turns very fast, unless I’m distracted by some IRL issues (like wife coming home), or agonising before a lethal. I almost never get to S in my more than 2 years of playing. I’m pretty sure it’s connected.
Most S-rankers I play rope pretty often, including guys who replied here. I’m pretty sure it’s connected.
Patience is a key for becoming the top pro. “Lightning fast matches” sounds good, sure, but patience and careful planning is what gets you to the top. It may annoy me, but it doesn’t lessen my respect for the guys who can put the time they have for the good use to beat me consistently.
Casual play is lightning fast. Pro game may be not so much.
Still an average game is about 10 min, which is quite fast.
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CPG did a briefing a while back when the game was much slower where they said average is 13 mins.
I would love the timer to be increased to even 5 mins as it allows me to think through my plays, otherwise I make the most stupid misplays.
When I ladder I actually play a lot faster, I remember in a game for team wars, my oppenent had a big name behind them and they had the match-up advantage but thinking every turn through I was able to just about edge out a victory.
Thinking for long really helps your ability to win games and I think it’s important to do so.
Predicting possibilities of how many copies of which cards they’re running is too vague? Uh huh.
And you’re not doing anything wrong? You’re rank 12 because you dont have the time? To play 10 minute matches, you dont have the time? And you try, but they’re too slow, and you post about it, and you keep posting about it for hours, but you dont have the time? Solonafir is posting counterarguments, you are not.
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I wouldnt say 90 seconds, but yes, there is struggle and thought there, if you think turns ahead instead of “what am I gonna do RIGHT NOW”. FangRage
Ever think about how much you have to weight your choices when faced with scenarios in which counter intuitive moves like casting nothing are a sound option?
Well, I never ever see this, maybe you guys have the worst luck.
Bunch of high league dudes taking long to play, I wonder what it is, are they purposefully tilting the opponent through symmetrical bore strategy, or are they actually thinking about the game?
Well, maybe you should migrate to MTG, you could make a career out of your skill and its huge championship prizes.
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When playing Mr. Hai, I have a lot of choices to think about especially in the early game as that is where the match’s flow is truly decided. Sometimes I have to look at how aggressive my opponent is being cause if so then I have to assume they have removal for anything I put out and in that case I have to decided which minion to play that will most likely die. So for example, I can play either a Thunderhorn or a Sunsteel. Depending on the match-up I might want to sacrifice the sunsteel. Even as P2T1 I often have to make a choice whether I will play either Ki Beholder, Battle Pando or Lantern Fox. If I don’t have many sources of draw in my hand, then I must be very protective of the fox and even delay summoning it in case they have dispel/removal.
And this a just a few of the things I have to think about when playing from the very beginning with Mr. Hai as the archetype requires careful positioning in order to win rather than just snowball with overwhelming force.
I just wanted to add this because it can seem vague to say that S rankers are geniuses and of course genius take their time. Despite all the thinking I do, I still end up losing against the timer and that’s why I can barely break into diamond.
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Since I know my deck, I know how many 2-drops I have (and I see how many I have in hand, pre- and/or post replace), I know a) whether I need / want to accelerate (i.e. grabbing a mana tile next turn) b) whether I need / want to conserve cards and not accelerate or c) bait my opponent into accelerating by purposefully allowing him to snatch more mana tiles.
Since I can see which General and Faction I’m playing against (and can see whether they are playing a trial deck or not), I can make a good guess at what deck I’m up against (since there is no more unranked).
Possible - or maybe it’s just more salient for us because it annoys us.
Anecdotal and possibly biased evidence but the ‘slowdecking’ has become more common in the last… 4-5 months or so.
IF it were only high-league dudes, maaayyybeee.
But even if there were a (positive) correlation between turn time and skill (or turn time and league), that can’t be interpreted as causality.
But Gold and Diamond dudes are doing the same.
And try-hard wannabe netdeckers who have no idea how to actually play the deck they copied.
Actually, I was a certified judge… 
Not going back to (competitive) MtG; too much investment in both time and money - and a lack of competitive scene on a national level, which would mean even more cost in time and money.
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I did post my reasoning. It’s up there right above all the posts telling me that I’m wrong. As to my ranking. I’ve gotten to gold but I my goal has been free shit from the beginning and never rank. My e-peen is not that important to me. Do I want to maintain rank that I pick up doing my dailies? Sure… and that’s where I am right now… I’m rank 12 from doing dailies… I haven’t once sat down to try to grind into a higher bracket this season. I have a very busy personal life…
Either way, someone else sees what I’m seeing and I’m hearing most of the people calling me crazy are high-ranked players… that I’ll assume are guilty of what I’m calling out so I’ll just leave it alone and assume I ruffled feathers of people that are doing this shady shit.
I’ve muted this convo as it has probably run it’s course… if a mod wants to close it feel free.
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