Let's discuss Thumping Wave

[baharoth]

Its not random on a clear board

[jon678910]

If vaath could only thumping wave you on an empty board we wouldn’t have a problem.

[edward4244]

Decispikes for 7 mana 9 damage, Holy Tiger 7 mana 7 damage, Tiger + overdrive 8 damage 7 mana, Spiral 8 Damage for 8 mana, Meltdown + warbird 9 damage for 8 mana, Tiger + Shadow Reflection 8 damage for 6 mana

This
Thanks @baharoth

There are still the new vanar 8/9 + reactivate gratis for 8 mana.
Star’s fury + fireblaze for 8 that usually makes around 9 dmg to the enemy general, if not more.
Hexblade + time maelstrom for 10 on 8 (/7? I don’t remember how much hexblade costs) mana.
Obliterate but it requires preparation.
Zendo + killing edge, 8 for 9 dmg (and your general is a battlepet).

You may argue these are weaker,
but remember
1 - they are from faction whose speciality/initial idea/deckbuild is not “go face go face go face”.
(And don’t make you suffer 4 dmg, but we all know that it doesn’t really matter when you just won the game )
2 - the mighty 3 or more cards combo.
3 - these combo in some cases leaves bodies to remove if they don’t end the game (zendo, the 8/9 and meltdown). While tumpedelucidator sometimes can’t be used if the opponent has litterally 11 healt

And btw some of them are even 1-card combo.

Pretty sure there are other ways.
But yes, in the end you are right @seraphicreaper, no one does 10 dmg for 7 mana except magmar let’s not oversell.

[jon678910]

Stars fury and fireblaze shouldn’t be listed here, since they’re unreliable.

[nwardezir]

Seraphim+SotWild if on the “right” side, 8 dmg for 7 mana

[crimsonblue]

Thumbing Wave can be both a buff and a soft removal tool only for 3 mana. I’m pretty sure no other cards in the game can do that. Bring the damage down to 3 instead of 5 or bring the mana cost up to 4 I think that would make it much more balanced.

[chrishaehnel]

I know y’all want to defend TW till you die by comparing it to other factions, but the point we’re getting at is that regardless of the high damage it can do, it is a tool that provides so much versatility. I want you to just list out how many other spells provide multiple effects. There aren’t many, and many of the ones that see high amounts of play (chrom cold, TW) provide both face damage and removal.

few cards provide that level of versatility.

[jeezboozxd]

Nerf Discussion: Thumping Wave

NERF THREAD ALERT! If you're tired of nerf threads, please run now! I've been becoming increasingly concerned with the spell "Thumping Wave". For those who don't know, this is a 3 mana spell which increases the attack of any minion by 5, then transforms it into a 3/3 battle pet at the end of the turn. I feel that Magmar already has incredible single-target removal spells in Natural Selection and Egg Morph. But more importantly in my opinion is the 5 attack buff. I compare this buff to that …

Let's talk Thumping wave

I had a bad experience back then for typing out of frustration and I will try to refrain that same thing from happening again. Topic: Is thumping wave just fine as it is? Or is it too strong? Like I feel that card itself is ridiculously good, you can use it to just face race ur opponent if needed. As that is usually how magmar functions, remove minions, fight for board, hit face with their bbs and high attack minions, and makantor jesus usually closes up the game. But my main concern is no…

Here are previous discussions.

[tsevech]

Sorry, I should have checked for it! Thanks for all the contributions to the discussion anyway!

[raviel1234]

is it versatile?
yes indeed

is it op?

1. effect 1: +5 damage - not bad, you have other 3 mana spells that buff +5 in abissian, songhai have a +4/2, lyonar +2/4 and divine bond, vanar have +5/5 on opponent’s side of the fiels for 4 mana(pretty much double value at the least).
   thumping wave does have a dissadvantage over those: if you use it as a buff you would prefer to not have the second effect as it makes sure you can attack at most 1 time with the buffed minion and even if it could survive it would be turned into a 3/3 battle pet which is quite bad minion.

2. effect 2: transform to 3/3 battle pet. first off transform is very important for magmar as they don’t have in faction dispell, and so this is their key answer for most dangerous threats.
   second we have similar cards:

• 1 mana vanar aspect of the fox with turns it into a 3/3 that is controllable, which is much better of a minion so lower mana cost is justified somewhat by giving an actually good body to the opponent.
• 2 mana vanar altered beast that turns a minion into a random battle pet, most of the time the resulting body is way weaker than a 3/3. so still the effect is better than thumping wave overal. (this shows you can see that the second effect is overpriced)
• 3 mana songhai onyx bear seal. it is actually similar somewhat to thumping wave’s second effect, as it costs the same and gives the opponent a decent body. i do consider the 0/2 pando a very good minion as it can be controlled and can’t be attacked, it can be used to gain quite big positional advantage over songhai to the point they will have to spend a phenix fire or worse to deal with it. actually i think it gives the opponent more advantage than the 3/3 battle pet most of the time. i guess that says more about how weak songhai removal is, having to play this as their only in faction hard removal.
  now considering that the effect is not immidiate it does make it less optimal as a removal.

overal both the effects seem slightly weaker than counterparts in other factions, however due to the flexibility of it, it can actually be considered good.

some seem to complain about the illucidator + thumping combo, however they often ignore that you have to have more than 4 hp to play it. i lost probably tens of games having the combo in hand but not being able to use it since i had 4 or less hp, i guess i won some due to it as well. bringing the opponent magmar general to 4 hp is often underrated move that literally wins games.
the other counterplay would be to bait it as a removal, having only 3 of those it largely reduces the probability of it being used as win condition.

overal it seems to add more variety to the game being kind of an unique card, more than anything else.

[kirabi]

So I am this point with Thumping wave it is not inherently bad but necessary any more for Magmar.If Magmar needs burst it should come from Drogon ,Spikes/Decimus, Bounded life force, fractal rush minion or board egg combos.Thumping wave can be lower to 4 attack or probably 3 attack.

So while I don’t think it OP I think some effort should be made make high damage from Vaath to be on board or close range with only far range burst being decimus combo.

[seraphicreaper]

Adds more variety? I’d say it adds less-

If we choose to agree that TW are slightly weaker counterparts as the card’s you compared it to, the versatility (as you acknowledged yourself) leads to a HUGE advantage: the option to free up deck space. TW allows a deck to utilize it as a “flex position” card between removal or burst.

There are plenty of hypothetical examples to imagine for comparison:
What if CPG put together Aspect of the fox and Wailing overdrive?
Or if Songhai could have Killing Edge and Onyx Bear Seal in just one card? (Oh man would they love actually being able to spare that)

Abyssian’s Darkfire transformation and Vetruvian’s new card (Blood of Air?) aren’t buffs, but do remove and convert the enemy minion, but these cost 5 mana to TW’s 3.

TW’s key difference in versatility to ALL these other cards allows to free up deck space with its dual purposes, while keeping up with strength to single purpose cards (and Id argue it surpasses the 5 mana ones I mentioned).

It allows Magmar to have its cake and eat it too.

[raviel1234]

the side effect makes it worse as a buff, the removal is overpriced by itself.
why not have some variety?

all buffs seem to work slightly different one from the other, this would be boring if it was exactly like an other card from a different faction. also magmar need the removal option now more than ever.
when people play 3 embla and 2 meltdown + 2 ghost and such.

if it was a regular buff magmar players could buff lets say a lavalasher without having to get the exact lethal that turn and attack with it. next turn you would have to get removal to deal with it or you would just take 18 damage from it during the duration of 2 turns. as it is now you either must play it as a finisher (deal the 5 damage once at max) or the buffed minion gets self removed by transforming into a useless battle pet. so i guess overal it is quite balanced considering the negative side effects it has in both forms, also like mentioned earlier magmar don’t have any good hard removal other than it. egg morph is just meh, spending an attack is a big price to pay and its only usefull in melee range if at all and it costs 4 mana. no one plays it and for good reason, maybe if it was 3 mana it could be reasonable.

how is this better than blood of air? when i played it i often could remove 2 minions with it and essentially clear the enemy board. it seems quite amazing. that is vetruvian’s only removal so it has to be good i guess.

dark transformation you mean? i don’t really have an opinion about it, it isn’t a new card so it’s effect is less flashy but the wraithling doesn’t dissapear like the dervish does, i guess that was the reasoning for how they balanced it with blood of air.
abyssians also have 2 other hard removal spells. one of with is punish that is very underpriced, it could have been 3 mana easily, no particular reason for it to be at 2 mana, yet it is.

about saving some space in deck, yes it is a big issue. i for one would like to see more cards like that, many good cards are left unplayed becose there isn’t enough room for them after you packed enough removal to survive in the meta. not sure how they could balance those and make them usable / unique.
i guess one try was cobra strike that is essentially a merge of 2 phenix fires into 1 card, but having less versatility and same cost as regular phenix fires it ended up underwhelming and noneplayed.

[seraphicreaper]

I think I agree; opening up deck space could bring in some serious spice (and design risk) into the game.

I personally could see how TW just isn’t penalized enough in contrast to our previously discussed cards for what dual purpose cards like TW bring to the board/table. <-This seems to be the gripe. (One I can understand, additionally for the synergy that it has within the face magmar faction.)

[jon678910]

Personally I’d like to see a 4/2 pet instead of a 3/3. This would let prevent it from getting stormed anyway, while making it more desireable for starhorn, since he can clear it with one attack too. It would make a marginal difference, but magmar doesn’t have many (if any?) spells that will deal 2 damage to a minion.

[raviel1234]

doesn’t it appear in the end of your turn? only way to plasma it would be on your next turn if it survived the attack that it makes on the opponent’s turn.

magmar do have a 3 mana 3x3 AoE that does 2 damage to all minions and 1 mana single target 2 damage spell.

[jon678910]

Lava lance is generally used for 4 damage, and having to use it on rabbit would be pretty bad. As for the transformation, yes it is at the end of the turn, but rabbit is easy enough to avoid for a turn, and people can use plasma storm to clear it out.

[raviel1234]

didn’t think it was even used, i considered using it to combo with juggernaugt as alternative to ramp for 9 mana turn but it doesn’t seem to justfy a slot spent as it does nothing else of significance.

well i’d take it every day if opponent magmar:

1. is far enough from the bunny so bunny can’t attack - very likely you can kite him. with drogon being a favorite win condition and vaath possibly having 5+ attack you really don’t want him in your face.
2. spends 5 mana removal to clear a 3/3 battle pet (worth 1 mana) and nothing else. situationally it could be something else but definetely not given depends on the board.
   i wouldn’t even consider playing plasma storm for a 1 mana minion, unless he has 2-3 2 mana minions or something like kelaino that needs to be dealt with.

[enlightenedowl]

Strong but not overpowered and if you nerf it and make it cost 4 it suddenly really sucks. The only way to nerf it, which I firmly believe it does not need, is to make it give +4 as opposed to +5.

It’s completely okay to have POWERFUL cards, as long as they’re not OVERPOWERED. This is a wonderful example of that.