I like the idea of lowering Kha’s attack. What if its health was increased as well, to 4? Then it wouldn’t die when hitting, say, a silverguard knight or a bloodbound mentor, so it wouldn’t be able to wipe out an entire board the turn it gets summoned. The opponent would then have a chance to react (dispel, transform, etc).
I also think that fault should summon dervishes a maximum of once per turn. It’s ridiculous that someone can Kha, use up the dervishes, and then play like a Rae or a Bloodtear Alchemist and get another batch of dervishes all in the same turn.
@deathsadvocate I’ve found that, to find the root of a problem, you should be able to be abused in a variety of settings. In the case of Rae, it’s abused with Fault, but it also snipes mana tiles to ramp plays.
Khanuum-Ka abuses fault, and it also helps push the power of obelisk decks. I think we agree on Ka being a concern.
As for fault, I think we agree that it’s alright on its own, and that Rae and Ka push the envelope.
There’s more than just Magmar removal in the game. Judging a card’s power based on its ability to play around only Magmar cards is something I don’t like. It implies stuff like Rae is garbage while Golden Justicar is practically OP.
I get where you’re going with Zendo. The thing is…it stayed at 6 mana. This new cloudcaller is one mana cheaper. And besides, Zendo is still strong. It even has inner focus synergy now. The main drawback is, once again, susceptibility to specifically plasma storm and natural selection. If Zendo was a 5-drop, that would be a different story.
Regarding cloudcaller’s stats and its ability to deal with things like Decimus and shadow dancer in one attack, isn’t that the point of the lesser waterball? Do you think your opponent will give you a trade on a Decimus or dancer on board? I’m of the mindset that they won’t. I certainly wouldn’t if I can help it.
Regarding Fugitive: what I want to know is how you feel about Kron and Letigress. They have a lot in common with Fugitive: 5 mana (Legendary, neutral) minion, decent stats (in particular, 5+ health), and an ability that generates some value the turn the minion is played but also produces more over time if it’s left unchecked. They see much more play than does Fugitive, and while the tokens they make are arguably less valuable than drawing an extra copy of a spell, they usually have more of an immediate impact. I understand that your issue is mostly with the play pattern of recurring certain annoying spells (Darkfire Sacrifice, Aphotic Drain, Concealing Shroud), but then I feel like your contention should be with those spells and not the minion.
That’s why you have sister for, they will never give it to you, you take it.
Look at it as destroying 4 hp minion twice.
Again - I don’t play against magmar’s removal I play against the maximum number of removal possible.
Regarding hp caller is pretty much set to hold up against most removal.
Opening Gambit making it basically zero dispel value.
Attack based removal is where it shines.
Caller is basically a tortoise that hits everything and usually stay alive (husk, decimus, dancer, wreath, thorn, painter etc…) at 3 it will be useless as a defending body or clearing a game breaking minion.
You look at the five Mana as more easy to proc but you just left a body that can’t erase hard to deal with minion.
I’ll prefer the 6 Mana version and being able to swing well even if it means using sister and other tools.
I get you want it to be easier to proc, but hey - not everything suppose to be dummy friendly.
Some cards are just harder to play then others and it ok.
Even though caller is pretty much straight forward - kill one game breaker, use sister and swing for another.
Finish the game somehow.
One of the reasons thunderhorn still retain a the same scary level even after the Nerf.
Granted, I worded it wrong. What I mean is that you get the spell in your hand right away at the end of your turn, when there is no opportunity to stop it.
I don’t disagree with that. However, that’s a specific example in a void. There are many situations where Fugitive will be better and because of the board state or other factors you may not be able to deal with Fugitive straight away.
On the one hand it can be, but on the other it really isn’t. We are looking at the card in a void
I don’t keep up with TW, but I would assume not every person who’s played it has a lot of experience with that deck in particular. The people who play a lot of it on ladder that I’ve come across, do have Fugitive in their deck. Regardless of how good a player is, it still takes a lot of games to be able to know the deck like the back of your hand and be able to know your way around different scenarios. If those players who play it a lot on ladder think Fugitive is worth being in the deck, then it should say something to some degree.
True the stat change does very little. But changing the wording and not changing the stats, would also be pointless. However, if the stat changes are too much then it goes the other way from hardly seeing play to being played too much because of the stats. The alternative would be complete re-work of the card and how it works.
I have no problems with the current versions of Kron and LeTigress. My problem is the immediacy of getting the card and basically, getting to chose which card it is and having it placed in your hand. Fugitive (and Loremaster) both don’t have any real counter play to stopping them giving a card into the hand. While we could agree the spells are the more annoying part of my issue, it would also mean looking at changing a lot of those spells. Whereas, I would prefer introducing a chance to counter play. To be fair and honest, I made the “cards” at like 3am last night and made this topic in 10-15 mins during that time frame. If I had my way I would rather delete Fugitive and Loremaster altogether. Mainly for 2 reasons, 1 lack of counter play, and 2 I believe they limit future design space for any fun/cool spells, assuming if Duelyst ever gets an expansion. The saving grace for both Fugitive and Loremaster for them, besides the fact their both already in the game, is that there isn’t a lot of decks that are built to utilise they strengths. But like I mentioned before, even if a card doesn’t see a lot of play, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t look at the card in terms of changes.
I feel like I’m still just not understanding something fundamental here. Yes, it’s impossible to prevent your opponent from getting the initial card with Fugitive. So what? The same is true for any other of the many cards with an end-of-turn effect or an Opening Gambit; you can’t prevent it from going off at least once. And while Fugitive is arguably an answer-or-die minion in the decks that run it, again, there are plenty of minions like that and Fugitive is among the least objectionable: at least it won’t kill you the very next turn like Decimus or Zendo, and the value it provides is parcelled out gradually (one spell a turn) instead of coming in bursts like Sunforge Lancer or Owlbeast Sage.
Based on what you’ve been saying, you seem to find spell recursion more offensive than other forms of value generation, but I have trouble seeing why. It’s a natural mechanic that has been used in plenty of other CCGs with little fuss. The main way it’s been problematic in other games is when you have spells that recur themselves, which Duelyst has been pretty conservative with.
Everyone knows Xor isn’t the strongest. Most people using Xor on the ladder aren’t interested in playing most competitive versions of the deck. They’re here to meme and annoy.
Fugitive fits those memes perfectly, and has successfully annoyed you.
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