Help me with sajj

[nh3maser]

Well, I do have some advice. I’m not sure if it’s exactly what you’re looking for though.

1. 
   These cards belong in basically every Vetruvian deck unless you have a very good reason otherwise. Sometimes cutting some is unavoidable (for example, Obelysk decks have their own set of 2-drops and hence can’t afford to run the Golem package), but these are the faction’s best cards and make pretty much every deck better, and would certainly do the same for yours. Right now all you have out of these is Blood of Air (and that’s the worse of the two 5-drop removal options). The card draw effects in particular are invaluable for increasing the consistency of your gameplan, and running Golems would also give you access to Wind Striker who seems like it would fit in well.

2. In a Tempo Sajj list (one that includes the Tears + Maelstrom combo), you want to have cheap artifacts and not expensive ones. Spinecleaver is a fine card but doesn’t belong in a list like this, you need to build around it more, with things like Zephyr. Hexblade I feel like is just a trap, it doesn’t do enough for what it costs. Cutting the higher-cost artifacts would also let you trim Artificer to free up more space.

3. Your big minions are also a little suspect, especially Incinera, which is a card I quite like but which should usually just be Silhouette Tracer instead, since it has a larger immediate effect and allows you to escape from Provokes.

4. Finally, if you feel like you’re running into too many bad matchups, you could always tech specifically for whatever you’re encountering most often. At the very least you’ll feel prepared for that one matchup.

Hope this helps, and good luck on the ladder.

[nh3maser]

I also should’ve posted this earlier in case you wanted an idea in a different direction:

This is a budget Sajj list built around Breacher that I’ve been experimenting with. It’s basically just minion-heavy Goodstuff™ with whatever Sajj synergies I could reasonably fit in. This is an example of a deck in which I think Incinera fits in better in place of Tracer: it doesn’t rely as heavily on Sajj specifically and the extra 3 attack is nice with Breacher. (Similar reasoning led me to try Saon originally in place of Falcius, but that didn’t pan out as well, as per my rant above.)

If you wanted to pimp it up a little, I think something like this could be actually competitive if you included the full Vetruvian Golem package and maybe a couple of Aymaras at the top end.

[snowshot]

An improvement has been noted.

For some reason the golem package does well, I do not like the blue golem not the Mana is that crucial.
But the help put pressure and kill a surrounding minions for clear faca damage or litd.
I’ve thrown away one hexblade and one cleaver since they play a less minor rule now.

I do enjoy hexblade being a major boost to damage and a defensive artifact at the same time.

Reader is good but got he’s ugly as fuuuuuu…

I feel like the golem package is also a way to thin out the deck, so I left 2 jammers for body and more aggressive play style.

[nh3maser]

Why am I not surprised that you’re averse to running the full complement of 2-drops
As long as you still feel like you’re able to consistently trigger the Bond on Dreamshaper it’s all good.

However, I feel like you’re being too harsh on poor Reader. He looks the same as almost every other Vetruvian unit - white mask, brown cloak with gold trim, blue glowy effects. What are you objecting to - the cape? The way he never lowers his hands?

[snowshot]

The puffy shirt mostly and the chicken legs.
He looks like the vet unit that getting bullied by vet’s poop dervishs.

[watchdog001]

If anyone feels like helping It would be much appreciated. This is a variation of phoinexflame’s trial sajj deck, with a few budget alterations. I switched out rasha’s for rescue RX to stay alivev against aggro, time maelstrom for falcius to deal with stuff and atom klingers for pax’s, since I feel like klinger is a bit clunky and pax gives better and faster beard presence.

I feel like the deck is a bit of a mess though, and would like some opinions on whether my alterations were rightly made and if not, what should I substitute for those cards. I would also appreciate any extra advice on how to play this deck, since I am starting to think that I just can’t play properly.

Phoinex climbed to S-1 with this, and I couldn’t get into high gold. Are the alterations that big? Has the meta changed that much? Am I that shit? I just don’t know …

As always, all input appreciated.

[alplod]

I haven’t played trial Sajj for some time, but remember that at the time of the post:

1. Nose cost was 5. It matters.
2. Meta was not stable yet, everybody was still experimenting.

So even the original deck itself is probably less powerful now.

[phoinexflame]

NoSE isn’t a very good climbing deck now. It had a short lasted moment of glory while the ladder was mostly Strategos and other Trial decks but, as Alplod notes, things have changed since then.

If you do wish to continue playing Notion you should treat it as a meme deck, not an actually competitive one.

I also question some of my original picks like Atom Klinger and Skyppy. In any case, the original deck is not a good example of a Notion deck. Niklaren made a reasonable looking NoSE deck if you want to see a better example, it even comes with an excellent writeup.

[watchdog001]

Ironic that a deck that shot up from meme tier to the top was just nerfed so hard to the point that it simply needs more support again. Poor Sajj.

[nh3maser]

I feel like the problem with NoSE decks is mainly NoSE herself. For every other Mythron minion, while you design your deck to hopefully get immediate value from the Destiny the turn it’s played, the minion itself also has acceptable vanilla stats (X/X for X or better) and hence provides some board presence all by itself. For NoSE, on the other hand: it’s ok if you can keep 2 artifacts equipped so as to play her and immediately fly away to safety, but that’s easier said than done, and if you can’t, the tempo loss of spending your whole turn to play a vanilla 3/3 often is enough to directly lead to your defeat. (It was bad enough at 5 mana, the nerf felt completely unnecessary and turned the archetype into a joke.)

However, not all is lost! The key to making a good Vetruvian Trial deck is just to make it a good Vetruvian deck by including all of the standard good Vetruvian cards. Here’s a budget build I’ve been experimenting with:

It’s not great by any means. But since it has a good early game with the Golems and First Wish, and good removal in Bone Swarm, Sandswirl, and Blood of Air, there’s a baseline power level to it that allows you to still win some games. (If anything, all of the powerful draw options are too much here with NoSE eating up a hand slot. I’m still trying to adjust the numbers to make things work better.)

[watchdog001]

Thanks, I sort of came to the same conclusion; If you wish to make a Nose deck you shouldn’t make it the sole purpose for the deck’s existance, just include it’s package along with some other package, like the golem package, the dervish package, or simply the artifact Sajj package. I have further switched out skyppies for zephyrs, which provides some far better utility (skippy isn’t that great) and will continue to expand on the Sajj supporting genre of vet decks to complete this one.

I will probably experiment with some other Nose decks including your golem hybrid once I get the necessary cards.

I think I have what I need for now, many thanks to everyone and be on the lookout for a wierd Nose Sajj deck on the ladder ^^

[alplod]

I dunno, I still prefer dedicated Neurolink Trial Sajj as more streamlined.

[watchdog001]

I think the issue is in the consistency. If a dedicated Nose deck doesn’t draw it’s combo on curve it just can’t put out any real threats in the midgame. Even if it does ascend, with today’s Nose it takes AT LEAST 2 turns to go full ultra instinct while you won’t actually be doing any threat development at all, apart from the 2/1 or 1/4 flyer, the 2/6 vanilla and a 6 mana 3/3.

A hybrid deck just might be what keeps you in the game for those 2 turns before you clear the enemy board with your super saiyan. Researching that right now.