I’ve recently began experimenting with Lyonar and they feel waaaaay more sturdy and hard to kill than Magmar, which got me thinking that having access to a single grow tile would make for some insane power, but at the same time, throwing out a small body with a very dispellable effect beyond 4 Mana seems suicidal and unplayable, hence the 3 Mana cost.
I considered giving it an even smaller body with 1 or 0 attack, but Strategos really doesn’t need any more help.
…Perhaps removing its own Grow and just leaving the Flourish tile is the answer? But what kinda magic sentient (possibly sacred because Lyonar) sunflower can’t grow on its own?
While these are interesting on paper, Lyonar lacks any sort of positioning tools bar Provoke which forces certain uncomfortable plays and Magnetize which is… gimmicky.
For that reason, Twilight Inquisitor seems more viable than Dishonorable Captain, and while I like the idea of a sub-faction of evil Lyonar creatures, backstab and infiltrate feel really out of place with the game in its current state. Maybe you guys could come up with a whole series of evil Lyonar minions to support the theme, but as standalone entries they feel weird.
The possibilities this has terrify me; Flashing it out while running Moloki and/or Godhammer, or while Wanderer’s effect is already in place, or with Gigaloth already active would make for some broken lists. It doesn’t seem too great on its own but it enables some crazy tempo moves.
Not gonna lie, love this one; but moving an additional space seems rather underwhelming. Maybe switch to a giant bird (the other Vanar sub-theme) and give it Zeal: Flying?
Not crazy about the name; he’d be a martyr if it were Dying Wish, but not with Deathwatch, plus the tiny body seems very counterproductive outside of Strategos… and Strategos is already doing great without more stuff thrown his way.
So… it transforms other things into Lyth? Rebirth may not be the right keyword to use here and it therefore feels incredibly Abyssian, not something out of another faction.
Love this one, but it seems like an awful lot of work for such a small payoff unless you’ve developed Gravity walls to keep your opponent pinned. Why not reduce the backstab damage and also give the dude Rush? I can see it being a Combo wincon with Wailing Overdrive and a positioning tool.
What would you recommend for the other buffs for Pawn of the monolith? Note, they have to kill a minion to receive the effect so it’s depreciating value unless you buff or heal the pawn.
I have been getting very mixed reviews about its power level, many think its to weak, and some thing its to strong. Yes there are some very specific instances where it can be very powerful but those will be rare with counterplay, require you to build the deck around them, and of course its an easy to answer card. I think its in a good spot as it is both for its flavor and mechanics but it seems to be a bit controversial.
Rush is notoriously powerful and I do not think it belongs here, but reducing the damage in trade for a different kind of effect is certainly an option. Stealing mana crystals could be fun, could make it mirror scroll bandit but going for crystals.
Bandit Variant:
Vanar Minion Vespyr
2 mana (1/3)
Infiltrate: Backstab 2, steal a mana crystal.
You could also make it Backstab AND Stun, but I really do feel the current version doesn’t justify all the work needed to make it work if not for the damage output.
@deathsadvocate Given how mana theft/ramp already got niched as Vanar, now i feel Infiltrate is unnecessary to make it feel frosty. I like the ramp theft idea and this little extra polish makes it.
I’ll have to make myself clearer in that i didn’t found your previous ideas weak, but… Clunky. You’re working with so many moving parts by combining Infil with Back that i have my qualms on how practical it can be - sure Vanar has some displacement but we’re juggling two relatively hard to trigger effects together, so the effect must be nearly obscene but the base/body needs to be weak in order to not out-compete with other options. I’m mostly concerned in it going into Feast of Famine zone instead.
@anon52821416 can we not get into infinite stun/stab loops?
being able to steal a mana crystal with no way to get it back is disgusting. its why i dont like malicious wisp, but even wisp has ‘dying wish: give it back’
given that vanar has a reactivation spell, teleports, and the minion is cheap, bandit varient is just too strong for a 2 mana minion
with the small nerf to the originals damage its comparable to a crystal cloaker or a kaido assassin. while not god tier amazing, its still solid after the nerf.
backstab 4 would only not be OP if it cost over 6 mana or if it was in magmar cause they have 0 real movement options besides repulsor beast.
as it is, its effectively a 2 mana 6/3 if you play it before turn 3 or draw any form of walls
the thing to balance around is how easy or hard it would be to get the kill and live since you get the same benefits whether you kill a wraithling, an obelysk, a silverguard, a wall, or a terradon.
While I do like the bandit version, and it could potentially work without infiltrate if it was changed from steal to just ramp, it strays to far from the cards original design and flavor at this point. Plus while I like mana theft it is very controversial and a lot of people really hate it so I do not think I will be going that route.
I think it avoids feast and famine simply by having a good base with the vespyr tag, and it will only feast if it has been well earned or your opponent is really unlucky. I wanted it to be a card you could shape a deck around to push Vanars positional subthemes.
@oranos I toned it down a touch by popular demand. I think folks are having a knee jerk reaction to the stats without realizing just how hard it will be to pull off, it needs to be significantly better then Kaido or Cloaker to be worth it at all, heck even those two are rarely worth it as it is.
Alright, You got me. I can’t deny it does make more thematic sense as a Hawk.
I was worried about similarities to Fledgling, and didn’t like with my design having flying tied to zeal actually. But I think it could make sense to do it like this: Infiltrate: Flying & Zeal: +1/+1
Actually this puts into similar territory as WolfRaven
Whenever you summon a token it gains abilities dependant on your opponent’s faction.
List of Abilities:
Lyonar: Provoke, +2 health
Songhai: Dying Wish: deal 2 dmg to the closest enemy.
Abyss: +1 atk, Dying Wish: Summon a wraithling on a random space. (yeah, this goes infinite)
Vet: Rush, Ephemeral, +3 health (to avoid Bloodtide OTK)
Magmar: +1/+1, Rebirth
Vanar: Stun an enemy minion attacked by this.
What do you think?
EDIT. @darkjovo, my card doesn’t follow the prompt literally, but does follow it in spirit, having more than 2 faction concepts incorporated in one card. Is this acceptable still?
Alright, I have been ruminating on some of the feedback I received and think I have an idea that I think I’m am happy with for improving the design, keeping it simple to parse, but hopefully interesting to play. But I’m not certain on the numbers and overlap with other cards design space, there’s a surprising number of 3 mana fliers, so I lowered the mana cost to give it a bit more of a niche:
Hunting Hawk
Vanar Minion
2 Mana 2/2 Flying Infiltrate: +2 Atk Zeal: +1 Hp
With this new design the Zeal lost it’s Infiltrate conditionality, which made the keywords feel of equal importance, so I increased the Infiltrate bonus to make this feel more Vanar than Lyonar. At 2 HP it should die in one hit and getting both bonuses shouldn’t be so common that this is only ever a 2 mana 4/3 Flying. It feels like an alternate option to Cloaker I guess?
