It is a faction combination not in mechanics, but in playstyle/aesthetics, to (hyperswarm) Abyssian. It uses the Magma tokens in a fashion much similar to Wraithlings as mass-produced swarm of disposable flunkies that will be somewhat buffed before sent to the meat grinder.
Fan Card Design Hub: Discussion (+Card Design Contest Discussion)
2 Likes
a 2 mana 2/3 with backstab(4) is immensly powerful. imagine this
t1 play it
t2 gravity well hearth sister. then you backstab the general for 6 damage every turn they cant answer it. more if you buff it.
thats way too much damage potential for a 2 drop. remember katara when it first came out? dropping the backstab from 4 to 2 is more in line with whats balanced. 3 if your feeling generous.
dont forget that vanar actually has a lot of cards that punish or manipulate positioning. provoke, stun, teleports, walls, positional high damage aoe
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For the seed, what I don’t like is that it’s unanswerable. Invulnerable means you can’t do anything to it. You can plop the seed right in front of them and they can’t interact with it. It can’t be targeted by soft removal such as demonic lore to move it away. It may be fun to play with by not so fun when it’s blocking your path from a potential lethal.
My suggestion is to buff the ability, give it deathwatch: Gain Grow: +1/+1 and grow. Dying wish: Summon a copy of this minions on a random space. Thus it gives it answers for players to counterplay way. It’s answer or die, not die.
PS: I love abyssian, and don’t ever say I don’t 
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I’ve recently began experimenting with Lyonar and they feel waaaaay more sturdy and hard to kill than Magmar, which got me thinking that having access to a single grow tile would make for some insane power, but at the same time, throwing out a small body with a very dispellable effect beyond 4 Mana seems suicidal and unplayable, hence the 3 Mana cost.
I considered giving it an even smaller body with 1 or 0 attack, but Strategos really doesn’t need any more help.
…Perhaps removing its own Grow and just leaving the Flourish tile is the answer? But what kinda magic sentient (possibly sacred because Lyonar) sunflower can’t grow on its own?
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why not making it have a passive effect that augments hallowed ground to also grant +1 attack alongside the +1 health restoration
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While these are interesting on paper, Lyonar lacks any sort of positioning tools bar Provoke which forces certain uncomfortable plays and Magnetize which is… gimmicky.
For that reason, Twilight Inquisitor seems more viable than Dishonorable Captain, and while I like the idea of a sub-faction of evil Lyonar creatures, backstab and infiltrate feel really out of place with the game in its current state. Maybe you guys could come up with a whole series of evil Lyonar minions to support the theme, but as standalone entries they feel weird.
The possibilities this has terrify me; Flashing it out while running Moloki and/or Godhammer, or while Wanderer’s effect is already in place, or with Gigaloth already active would make for some broken lists. It doesn’t seem too great on its own but it enables some crazy tempo moves.
Not gonna lie, love this one; but moving an additional space seems rather underwhelming. Maybe switch to a giant bird (the other Vanar sub-theme) and give it Zeal: Flying?
Not crazy about the name; he’d be a martyr if it were Dying Wish, but not with Deathwatch, plus the tiny body seems very counterproductive outside of Strategos… and Strategos is already doing great without more stuff thrown his way.
So… it transforms other things into Lyth? Rebirth may not be the right keyword to use here and it therefore feels incredibly Abyssian, not something out of another faction.
Love this one, but it seems like an awful lot of work for such a small payoff unless you’ve developed Gravity walls to keep your opponent pinned. Why not reduce the backstab damage and also give the dude Rush? I can see it being a Combo wincon with Wailing Overdrive and a positioning tool.
2 Likes
its a refference to Warcraft`s Lich King(wraithlings being ghouls), and provoke because he has provoke in HS is menacing and intimidating
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What would you recommend for the other buffs for Pawn of the monolith? Note, they have to kill a minion to receive the effect so it’s depreciating value unless you buff or heal the pawn.
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I have been getting very mixed reviews about its power level, many think its to weak, and some thing its to strong. Yes there are some very specific instances where it can be very powerful but those will be rare with counterplay, require you to build the deck around them, and of course its an easy to answer card. I think its in a good spot as it is both for its flavor and mechanics but it seems to be a bit controversial.
Rush is notoriously powerful and I do not think it belongs here, but reducing the damage in trade for a different kind of effect is certainly an option. Stealing mana crystals could be fun, could make it mirror scroll bandit but going for crystals.
Bandit Variant:
Vanar Minion Vespyr
2 mana (1/3)
Infiltrate: Backstab 2, steal a mana crystal.
- Bandit Variant
- Small nerf to damage
- Small buff to damage
- Current Version
- Rework Again
0 voters
- Keep Vespyr Tag
- Remove Vespyr Tag
0 voters
1 Like
You could also make it Backstab AND Stun, but I really do feel the current version doesn’t justify all the work needed to make it work if not for the damage output.
Ramp could be ok, yeah.
2 Likes
@deathsadvocate Given how mana theft/ramp already got niched as Vanar, now i feel Infiltrate is unnecessary to make it feel frosty. I like the ramp theft idea and this little extra polish makes it.
I’ll have to make myself clearer in that i didn’t found your previous ideas weak, but… Clunky. You’re working with so many moving parts by combining Infil with Back that i have my qualms on how practical it can be - sure Vanar has some displacement but we’re juggling two relatively hard to trigger effects together, so the effect must be nearly obscene but the base/body needs to be weak in order to not out-compete with other options. I’m mostly concerned in it going into Feast of Famine zone instead.
@anon52821416 can we not get into infinite stun/stab loops?
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being able to steal a mana crystal with no way to get it back is disgusting. its why i dont like malicious wisp, but even wisp has ‘dying wish: give it back’
given that vanar has a reactivation spell, teleports, and the minion is cheap, bandit varient is just too strong for a 2 mana minion
with the small nerf to the originals damage its comparable to a crystal cloaker or a kaido assassin. while not god tier amazing, its still solid after the nerf.
backstab 4 would only not be OP if it cost over 6 mana or if it was in magmar cause they have 0 real movement options besides repulsor beast.
as it is, its effectively a 2 mana 6/3 if you play it before turn 3 or draw any form of walls
2 Likes
I’ll just not use that idea. You bring up a good point.
Ok.
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the thing to balance around is how easy or hard it would be to get the kill and live since you get the same benefits whether you kill a wraithling, an obelysk, a silverguard, a wall, or a terradon.
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While I do like the bandit version, and it could potentially work without infiltrate if it was changed from steal to just ramp, it strays to far from the cards original design and flavor at this point. Plus while I like mana theft it is very controversial and a lot of people really hate it so I do not think I will be going that route.
I think it avoids feast and famine simply by having a good base with the vespyr tag, and it will only feast if it has been well earned or your opponent is really unlucky. I wanted it to be a card you could shape a deck around to push Vanars positional subthemes.
@oranos I toned it down a touch by popular demand. I think folks are having a knee jerk reaction to the stats without realizing just how hard it will be to pull off, it needs to be significantly better then Kaido or Cloaker to be worth it at all, heck even those two are rarely worth it as it is.
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Let’s narrow things down:
OR
- False Knight
- Corruption of Eyos
0 voters
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Alright, You got me. I can’t deny it does make more thematic sense as a Hawk.
I was worried about similarities to Fledgling, and didn’t like with my design having flying tied to zeal actually. But I think it could make sense to do it like this:
Infiltrate: Flying & Zeal: +1/+1
Actually this puts into similar territory as WolfRaven 
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Was wondering if this counted as a single card for the competition
A card that changes depending on which faction uses it! The first is Vetruvian, the second Abyssian.
2 Likes
4/5 is the latest anti-magmar technology
1 Like