Duelyst Forums

Fan Card Design Hub: Discussion (+Card Design Contest Discussion)

One more question: what are Spike and Johnny cards? :sweat_smile:

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Sorry, I assumed it was common knowledge. https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Player_type

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Did you really ignored me asking to ignore the post and took time to go through edits to respond?

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Aha :slight_smile: no, I happened to read your post just before it went poof.
Edit: How can I read the previous version of a post? When I click the pencil icon nothing happens.

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Let’s discuss!

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That explains it.
Discourse is screwing me over today, undeleting and unediting what I try to delete and edit, and I keep accidentally pressing Ctrl + Enter when just trying to make a new line. And maybe you can’t even read the edits here, I just assumed that is what you did as you commented much later.
As for your note on one-click wins, IMO that is the case for legendaries and 6+ mana cards, but not everything.

Anyway, first batch of critique on suggestions from current card design contest.

Like, really? Furor Chakram + Mass Flight for 3 mana?

Repeatable MDS for just 1 mana more?

Frostburn is 5 mana for just 1 damage more without any movement.

I might be missing something, but playing this in the center line and never moving is a nobrainer for me.

Fun fact: if the order of events is as in the description, it will not stop until something manages to survive an attack (which is unlikely).

Imagine this being played with Reva instead of Kaleos for a moment. One Heartseeker survives a turn, this, BBS, Heartseeker moves.

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This is a bright idea.
I wonder how strong this can be, given the fact that I haven’t played the pets so much. Unbased suspicion: The fact that it can target the enemy general probably means that it’ll be used as a finisher in some abusive deck. 1 mana finisher is cheap.

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That’ll work too, although I focused on making it work the best with Kaleos, for lore’s sake. Now that you mention it, this card is also pretty solid Ranged Songhai support.

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I suppose it can get pretty abusive, although Battle Pets need all the help they need. I’ll change it to 3 mana; that seems reasonable.

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Pretty much. I like the fact that you can just cast this on any minion and they now get +1/+1 buff any time they are moved by a spell or just by moving themselves.

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Actually I intended it as an “OPnerf” critique, because summoning 2 ranged minions with 4 attack in summ for 1 mana is too much. That is not counting face damage and Turtle’s stats.

Do you really think this is balanced? This + Kaleos gives +2/+2 for 3 mana, every following MDS has a double effect, every relocation and reactivation also gives free stats, not mentioning how it allows for free Backstabs until hard answered. This is literally Mantra of movement/Backstab decks, even worse.

And second batch of critique:

Personally I’d prefer it to be 5 mana 5/5 with Rush & Flying, something like that.

I like how you try to approach this, even though it may simply destroy current Creep if taken further.
No specific suggestions on your card, but I think it could be better if tiles had duration.

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I never expected the card to be overpowered. It’s a 7 mana minion with no immediate impact, so it’s already one of the weakest cards in Duelyst. Also, the combo you mentioned takes 2 to 3 turns to execute at the very least, all turns in which you cannot play curve because you have to BBS. Not to mention you have to keep the Heartseeker alive for it to move next turn, and that is not an easy task past 7 mana.

All in all, I tried to illustrate the commonplace philosophy of the tortoise with the card. Even if you may start off slower than others, your efforts will pay off in the end if you are diligent enough. Although such a design may be a setback in the fast-paced environment of Duelyst, there must be a reason why one of the greatest warriors in the Songhai Empire chose to harness the powers of such a slow animal.

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I think its a lot of mana and resources to spend on one minion which can easily be dispelled or removed by cards like Lavaslasher. You can say its free backstabs but there is only so much backstab you can be doing if you’re opponent hugs the wall or plays little minions.

I can agree to the mana being brought up to 3, but if I were to make that change, this card would not see play compared to a more immediate and game-ending buff like Killing Edge.

Let’s compare this card to the other two “give flying” spells

image

A +3/+3 buff is a lot more immediate and immediately forces your opponent to search for answers or die. In addition, this card can easily be grabbed by tutoring cards like Duskweaver. The minion having to be a dervish is not much a restriction since you will rarely cast this on non-dervish minions. This card also has synergy with Pantheran as well fulfilling his 0 mana summoning requirements in addition to placing threats on the board.

image

Astral Phasing is not as impressive as Third Wish I suppose but there is still something to be said about its synergy (and often surprise lethal) with Cosmic Flesh.

I think you are a bit off the mark with this statement

As the amount resources that are being put into a single minion would make any Midrange Songhai player sad. Its not that strong in a midrange deck when you want to be playing minions all the time and keeping board presence rather than buffing a single minion and hope it doesn’t get dealt with and its not ideal in aggro where this buff would be much too slow. This spell is simply support for movehai, support which is desperately needed.

I don’t know what type of nerf to give it (if it is even necessary) but making this card 3 mana will kill it.

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All 3 previous contest winners are dedicated memers Johnies.

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I assume this is talking about p2t1 here, so all that I am about to say relates to that.

Putting it centrally might seem to be the answer to all your problems, however, then it will never be able to challenge any of the other mana tiles. if you put it in one of the lanes nest to the center one then it can contest minions placed on both the central and upper/lower mana tile depending on which was chosen. you can also put it in the outer lanes if you truely value ramping to 5 mana and if you are blocked then your opponent has to give you something to trade into which is what this minion wants in the first place.

all of that is just considering the 4 rows on one turn, not to mention which exact space on each row you place it on (there are 6 good options in total I think), which option you choose will depend on your hand, the matchup and your gameplan and will only get more interesting as the game goes on.

the other fun thing to note is that logcrusher is basically hard countered by replusor beast :smiley:

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Did you seriously miss the part where all of this is for 1 turn? Definitely stronger than Chakram because of its lower cost, but it doesn’t give it to all minions and only lasts 1 turn.

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Oh good to know. This warms me inside my heart. :slight_smile:

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Yes, it doesn’t have immediate impact, but it is basically another answer or die card, and I strongly dislike that design. It requires only 2 turns to set up. And I don’t think Ranged requires any support in the first place as it is the strongest keyword in the game.

As an important minion and having additional movement capabilities, Turtle is played in the back. To remove it you opponent needs either reach and 10 damage, in which case he should kill your general instead, or hard removal/Dispel. Because of the latter you are not playing it on an empty board, with BBS on cooldown or on exactly 7 mana (“on curve” in your words). You play it on 8 and immediately have +1 Ranged minion for each minion you already had (essentially doubling your board) + BBS itself (I assume Heartseeker). Unless your opponent has Plasma Storm/EMP, next turn Turtle most likely is going face, followed by Cannoneer pings for BM and ranged attacks.

I’m even close to saying that it’s a winmore card, because if you’re playing it you should already have board control. And yes, it is too slow, because you have no time to speed up from 8 mana, game should be ended by that time even though I strongly dislike such design approach.

Apart from the contest, where you obviously need some movement effects, I’d change it to be something like

5 mana 3/4
Blood Surge: summon Heartseeker nearby

Yes, it is simple, dull and everyone wants more Heartseekers, but I see how it can be played. And I don’t think minions Turtle summons need that additional ping, Ranged and Movement are different archetypes.

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hmm, I wouldn’t put ranged as the best keyword in the game, I would rate them (not including the variable keywords) as follows:

  1. Invunerable
  2. Rush
  3. Ranged
  4. Forcefield
  5. Celerity
  6. Provoke
  7. Flying
  8. Frenzy
  9. Airdrop
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Id swap forcefield and ranged’s places.
After all, forcefield is appraised to be worth generally 1.5-2 mana while ranged is worth on the worst cards lime 1 mana.

Disregarding that, ranged creatures have a target over their heads with no protection, generally trash bodies.
forcefield minions have built in protection and dont take damage in trades- same benefit as ranged minions

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