Yeah, bastion+priestess is also a protection against thunderbomb, for example.
Disappointing meta
Man, really, I know that you are a reasonable guy, you know a lot the game, you try to be as objective as possible etc etc, but you keep repeating this as a mantra while it is highly subjective.
Even not mentioning the removal package (where, joking aside the only problem is lavalance) and decispike combo, and the ripper bullshit, the faction is problematic on his own.
I mean they have…kujata that if not countered the turn it’s summoned can lead to instadeath next turn (and it’s gross when used to summon a gigaloth, which is also a bad designed card on his own imho, since you can summon on the early turns, the enemy wont have 10 damage, next turn you time keeper it, then you most likely have won), flash reincarnation that has been discussed too many time on how it’s broken, ragebinder that is just too much for its cost, lavaslasher (which also can sinergyze with golem metallurgist) that can kill a 3-drop and leave a fat body behind, makajesus which is jesus, providing a board clear, forcing the opponent to awkward positioning just to play around it and leaves a 4 attack body (holy immo is far better imho, since at least it requires some setup and 2 cards), visionar and vindicator that are overstatted for their cost (seriously, visionar is a 5 mana 6/7 that could kill you next turn).
It also somewhat got out of the meta oddly (dunno why but i met far less eggnora lately) but even progenitor is a bad designed card imo, again a minion that for its mana cost, considering the stats and the huge effects, it’s too strong.
I mean, it’s not that people overreact to magmar, it’s just that the faction is overtuned right now, and that’s a fact, considering that it’s also the only faction that got competitive decks for all the generals.
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This is my post being commented, so I’ll comment the comments in return.
If that “common exaggeration” wasn’t at least partially true, it wouldn’t be common.
Countering several cards with one is a tempo gain. Removing a board your opponent was building for several turns in one turn/with one card is also a tempo gain. Still you argue that for some reason.
Both of that is false, check the original topic for numbers.
“3 decks are meta and counter everything else, thus everything else is a meme and should be forgotten. Play meta.” Nice approach.
I saw Scarzig doing it just last month, surprise-surprise.
Magmar are not removal-based, they are everything and removal.
And now, towards the end of the post, we finally arrived to something that is actually true.
Yes, Magmar are often criticized for their removal and yes, that may not be actually correct. And here’s a possible reason why.
@deathsadvocate (and maybe you, IDK) perceives Magmar as a “control” faction. But majority of players (and devs themselves), I’m sure, perceive it as big dudes faction. That is kinda accepted and noone really complains when they see Raptyr, Terradon, Haruspex or Memetic Hulk dropped. This is what players see first, that is what they expect. But then Mag follow it up with removing any threat their minions can’t deal with. This is when players get annoyed and start complaining - this is too much of efficient stuff in one faction.
You want a control faction? OK. I guess, Mag’s removal alone is somewhat fine. But then look at any true control faction, look at their stats and bring yours in line (spoiler alert: that will be much more nerfing than just Rebuke-Lava Lance).
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I’d also like to point out (again) that sheer existence of Magmar in the current form actually promotes the most toxic Hai and Faie decks (which don’t care about their own minions) many Magmar mains tend to complain about. Cause that’s the only decks that can consistently win against Lizards!
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Yep, when removal is weak people will play minions that can win the game if unanswered, and if it is too strong people will play disposable minions (aggro) or very few at all (combo/burn(/fatgiue?)). It’s just a natural reaction to the meta.
If you want the game to be more about minions then toning down some removals would be a good place to start. I think that’s part of what I enjoyed about gauntlet, where removal is less reliable. I also think there should be more minions with higher HP than attack (i’m particularly thinking of top end 6+ where there’s so many X/X or 3/X duders. Like they already die to single target, could they at least survive the aoe stuff?), buuut that’s probably a topic for another time.
On a related note though, I or someone else should update this gem:
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I guez I aM kinda nu heer. I recentlie hit s wid wandururrrrrr rugnura. Very fun dek wid tun uf skill. Mi favorite car iz rebouk cuz it iz fare and helpz me cum back when I iz behInd. But recentlee I haz ben playin vs dis weard dek which uses all duh spelz and finishes off wid a fire car wich heels too. I kerp trying 2 beet eet but I can’t serm to rebouk hiz cresent speer. Plz help dis dek iz borken.
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a typical hyperswarm deck will not run any card draw and if they’re holding a burst damage card so their board actually does something if it sticks and a daemonic lure in case something needs to be answered they will have the cards to refill the board once and after a second aoe clear it’s gg.
there are 3 furiosas and 3 crypographers in a deck. on average you will see 1 of each by turn 3. swarm decks rarely win by stacking furiosa buffs. they win with burst from deathfire crescendo, soul grimwar and soulshatter pact. when i’ve played swarm i’ve always replaced furiosa in the mulligan.
claiming magmar is the balance needed to keep swarm lilithe from dominating ladder as a justification for how all-purpose their removal options are is ridiculous. the general belief on the forums since skorn was released was that it’s mere existence made swarm lilithe unplayable. it was demonstratably false since skorn never was that commonly run but skorn and naga are both relevant tech options for countering swarm if needed.
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This?! This is what makes me laugh out all that? Miy braaeen iz borken…
Agreed. Also- There are plenty of other decks which do a much better job of clearing lilithe’s board than mag
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This game sucks ass now. No fun ever, just rage from agro and trials of patience. I hate duelyst now. Shit ass vet is everywhere which takes no skill and everything else is trial or agro. The game sucks and I hope it dies.
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competitive lyonar decks
doesn’t mention titan
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I recommend you to relax, it is not healthy to get so aggressive and upset about a game.
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Stop telling people to calm down.The Truth Hurt but have to be said.
people preach everyday but the community don’t listen.
mrdarklord162: tryed to explain why Replace Mechanic are bad for game but he got instantly cast down. me personaly think it should cost 1 mana to replace a card.
Many of my friends do not play the game because it’s not worth their time anymore and they
were right.
btw: baharoth good try but people only realize things when the train are to late.
And that too. Lyonar is doing fine.
I play a control Burnhorn deck that got me to S-Rank last season and the season before that. From my experience, you always have to be able to assess the matchup and give yourself a solid plan for the matchup. Obviously you’ll encounter some difficult matchups (I was playing some Titan Lyonar the other day and I came across a Trial Artifact Sajj. I got my opponent down to like 5 health but with no way to really remove artifacts, it was a difficult grind and I still lost haha).
I wouldn’t say the best decks at the moment are dumb and take no mental energy/skill to run. I would agree that a lot of them have some broken tools (Blood of Air, for example) that you can’t play around, and they work because of that reason. At the same time, its arguable than a lot of the “mindless” decks aren’t necessarily the best because the deck has less of a skill cap, giving other decks the chance to surpass it.
Just some person opinions. Take it with a grain of salt haha
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However you feel, saying “the game sucks and I hope it dies” and “I hate duelyst now” tells me you are not in a good spot and have some deeper problems than a PC game.
And otro, I don’t appreciate your tone. I don’t tell you to stop doing whatever you want, so I expect the same from you. That’s just general courtesy.
I also only gave him a recommendation, what he does with it is his decision. Probably leaving the game and that seems to be for the best when it evokes such feelings in him.
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I appreciate the OP identifying the exact concerns they have with the game. Magmar and Vetruvian both have strong decks they can play, and it can feel frustrating at times.
Against decks that play one minion per turn, vetruvian can bully people for sure. Their weakness is in the mass removal department, meaning swarm decks can close out games very quickly, Playing your minions to opposite diagonals of your general can minimize the impact of Blood of Air. And lastly, with fault being vet’s strongest deck, do your best to keep the center column’s tiles occupied.
Regarding Magmar, their removal, as strong as it can feel at times, is conditional. You can take precautions against natural selection by keeping a weak minion on the back line. With rebuke and plasma storm, either play minions that don’t die to the same removal (if possible), and don’t play out too much of your hand if you sense one of those cards coming. They can get a lot of value, but they don’t help to establish board, so if you can bait an AoE spell while keeping a large hand size, you can quickly rebuild and continue applying pressure. It’s a delicate dance sometimes. (Lizards also hate artifacts 
)
I know these factions have different strengths and weaknesses, and matching up favorably against both is not always possible. I for one think that’s a good thing. I wouldn’t want 1 faction to have a strong matchup versus everything. But sometimes simply knowing the faction can be enough to overcome adverse matchups. Hope this helps. 
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I think this just falls back into the resilience list posted above- its kinda hard to find good stuff that dont die too easily. The new thing you added is the bait part, to try and have them use removal for diminished value- but that is again hard to do, because, how do you even do that? One bait minion is succeptible to Natural Selection, Lava Lance, and Lavaslasher/Makantor + general attack. Two minions are succeptible to the very same methods- another failed bait, because if they remove even one of those, thats very likely a board Mag can live with. And playing three is no longer bait tier.
Like, in theory these guidelines work, but I dont really see how to apply this to the middle of a normal match. In most cases I see, either my board is too weak to bait removal, or its too strong and removal wipes it.
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I did not enjoy Expansion Rise of the Bloodborn: Grandmaster Variax at his Prime.
I did not enjoy Mechaz0rs and now they got nerfed Same Effort for bad reward more Volunerable then ever before.they where never to the point for me to say that they should stay how they are.
Trials are debatable but the Destinys are purely Broken.
whenever someone tries to explain…exactly.I wish everyone playing right now to have Fun.
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You’re definitely right. It can be much easier said than done. Balancing on-board threats and hand size is a tough thing to do, and sometimes you have to simply hope you aren’t blown out (like in the case of swarm Lilithe for example) If it was easy to minimize the effectiveness of Magmar removal, they’d never be strong,
I know not all options can go into a deck, but minions with opening gambits or ones that draw you cards can make removal feel less bad too. Opening gambits mean your minion served an impact before being deleted, and draw engines like spelljammer keep your hand full so you can apply more pressure without losing hand size.
These aren’t solutions that solve all problems. Just general guidelines that players can consider while they play (if their cards allow them which isn’t always the case. Such is the nature of card games.)
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