DeathsAdvocate’s Master Thread: Immortal Vanguard

[deathsadvocate]

I have done a ton of updating the last couple weeks, and today I added a whole bunch of new decks: Brome Bond, Baby Teeth and QuillRage Ragnora, and I finally filled in his spot and added four Ciphyron decks.

And you may have missed: Q spikes Starhorn, San Andreas Zirix, and Bond Argeon.

I have been busy lately, and it was easier to just update this, rather then to try and slowly post other threads. I’ve been showing off most of these on my stream lately so I don’t feel they really need their own threads anyways.

[unreason]

Hey, wanted to ask a quick question. Barring a specific reason not to run them, like alabaster titan, do you consider one-mana cantrips (aegis barrier, gotatsu, Scion’s first wish, sphere of darkness) mandatory three-ofs?

[deathsadvocate]

Sphere and Gotatsu, absolutely should be 3x, no question. First wish is a good 90% of the time, but sometimes there is a reason to skip. Aegis is amazing but you do need some good targets for it to be worth it.

Cards that cycle are really powerful regardless of mana cost. Sometimes a cards effect isnt good enough to include, like aerial rift, and of course there are exceptions but in general cycles are great and most of them make most decks better most of the time.

[unreason]

So cold beer, I mean, frigid corona is also an auto-three-of, more or less? And what about replicants? Sun wisps? Excuse me for picking your brain, but I currently consider you the go-to deck guy, for what that’s worth to you. Your stuff has influenced what I build to a certain degree, and in particular I netdeck your Sexy Lizard down to the card under the name VaathBreaksYourFace when I get the Magmar Challenger quest. No spaces in the name because it doesn’t fit in the Duelyst nameslot.

[deathsadvocate]

Corona is simmilar to wish, it fits about 90% of the time.

I personally adore replicant and sunwisp allthough many people don’t. I will much sooner include those when a deck feels a touch light on card advantage then I would something like Spell Jammer since feeding cards outside of aggro is bad, or something like soujner who is without a gaurentee on draw. They are not auto included but if you have spare room or need just a tiny bit of card advantage to round out a curve they are perfect.

[eurasianjay]

Except Gotatsu isn’t core in anything barring maybe Mantra lists. Most Songhai lists cut the card completely. Cantrip? Sort of. First Wish or Sphere though, this is not.

[deathsadvocate]

Cantrip is an MTG term meaning a 1/0 cost spell that draws a card.

I do think Gotasu is worth it, at least as often as first wish is, which is most of the time. Ping that cycles is exceptionally good.

[eurasianjay]

If using MtG terminology (20+ year vet), Gotatsu is more akin to a Slowtrip as it’s a poor topdeck and doesn’t actually improve your draw in any way the turn you use it.

For a card that’s 90% worth it, it sure as hell isn’t in 50% of Songhai lists, and I’ll admit to being biased to not favoring the card but comparable to First Wish or Sphere it is not and neither is it as universally applicable, both due to it’s casting restriction and end of turn draw. They are simply not cut from the same cloth and the card is too low value to include in a host of decks, primary but not entirely being restricted to Spell based lists.

Neither Aggro nor Midrange wants this card, while it has applications in Combo simply by virtue of not having much else in the way of draw anyway.

[unreason]

Last couple of days, I’ve been running your Cassy aggro deck Death with the grasps of agony and betray swapped out for spectral revenants (although I’m thinking of replacing them with three betrays to see what kind of results I get, might be crafting betray soon, revenants are still closing games for me though), and I’ve never had this much fun or these good of results with an aggro deck before. Makes me glad I never disenchanted those flameblood warlocks.

So I was wondering, do you have any mean ideas for some kind of draw-cards-vomit-cards Starhorn aggro deck? Or do you think it’d just never measure up? Because I’d definitely like to try something like that out.

[deathsadvocate]

I don’t play much aggro, there was a time when aggro starhorn was meta but its been awhile. The closest I have to that currently in my master list is the Dentist.

I could update it, its pretty straitforward stuff like Rancor, Flameblood, and Elucidator are the core combined with the deci/spikes.

@unreason I wouldn’t do more then two Betray as its unlikely you will ever get more then one off in a single game and two gives you enough to find one for the right time.

[unreason]

I’d definitely like to see it, if you feel like hacking it together. No pressure though.

Update on the betrayal situation, made three, replaced the revenants with them.

First game I use them, Faie backs into a corner away from my desolator and spelljammer (she’s at six) and slams out an EMP, blocking them both from reaching her. Start of turn, well played, betrayal. Looks like it’ll do what I was hoping it will: give me the extra out-of-hand damage a revenant will, but for a lot less mana, and with much higher upper potential.

No more than two, you say? I suppose I could stick a single grasp of agony in there. Or maybe go two-two-two on betray, grasp and void pulse?

[lambertsimnel]

I have opened two Revenants - lucky I know for an Abyss control main - however I am actually wondering if they need to be d/e’d for spirit…heretical thoughts but…

[deathsadvocate]

Up to you, it doesn’t fit into nearly as many decks now, but its still a solid card.

@unreason if you cut its early burn it looses some of its aggro potential, that’s a deck that wants to be winning around six mana. But having revs and betrays and gearing it to be slightly more midrange wont hurt anything, its just a different deck at that point. Issue with multiple betrayels is a lot of people will play around it, so as often as it can win you a game it can also do nothing.

[unreason]

The way I’ve been playing it, it’s definitely not midrange. I wouldn’t try to get revenants and betrayals in at the same time, I’d have to carve out too much early game. Using your Death list as the start, would dropping a single void pulse for a second betrayal be a bad idea? Or are void pulses an unquestionable three-of? Is there any other card I could cut one of to get a second betray in there?

[deathsadvocate]

If you really had to cut something, dropping one punish could work, since its a deck that wants to be killing the opponent not spending time answering threats. But shrugs, do what you gotta do, personaly I think the current line up is pretty ideal, but you probably have played the deck more then I have at this point so you should have a pretty good feel for what you think it can do with out and if the betray/rev is worth it.

@unreason Tenative aggrostarhorn list:

http://www.bagoum.com/deckbuilder#MTo0MTgsMzoyMDExMiwzOjIwMTE5LDM6MjAxMTYsMzoxOTA1MSwzOjQwOSwzOjQzMCwzOjIwMjM0LDM6MTExMDUsMzoxMTA4NiwzOjQxOSwzOjQwNywzOjIwMzQ0LDM6NDA1

Lots of ways to push damage, kujata/flash/rebuke+Amplification, lots of ways to buff rancor to insane levels, deci/spikes, and Rebuke gives you a good answer that has extra synergy with Wild Taurs Frenzy or Earth Sisters effect.

Untested and unsure of its place in the meta.

[unreason]

I’ll ponder cutting that punish. Still thinking about losing a void pulse. Briefly considered dropping a warlock, but what other card is going to burn face and leave a threat like that? Guess I could just run two betray and one grasp, but then that one grasp would be bugging me. I have a general dislike of one-ofs, unless I’m running them as a fourth copy of something else, since your odds of actually getting them, let alone when you need them, aren’t stellar, and betraying or dropping a revenant when my opponent just starts to grasp at stabilizing has been how I’ve actually been killing people a lot of the time.

And thanks tons for throwing together that aggrohorn. I haven’t seen amplification in a good deck…ever? So that’ll be interesting. But with all that ramp, plenty of ways to get critters on the field damaged, and then amp’s a better greater fortitude, so the theory seems solid.

Maybe I’ll have to make decimus and try this out. At this point he’s gotta be one of the last staple legendaries I don’t own. I’m not actually sure I have the spirit to pull it off, might have to break down and spend some of the gold I’ve been hoarding.

[deathsadvocate]

The list sort of disappeared after thumping got nerfed to four, and they cut Entropic Gazes damage in half. Between that and the tiger nerf the deck just never resurfaced. Amplification is there instead of thumping and the deck is geared a bit more around making sure it works as well as abusing rebuke.

But again its just an untested idea right now.

[deathsadvocate]

I have done a ton of updating the last couple weeks, I added OldSchool Golem Zirix, Faice Plant/Fissure Faie, Midrange Swarm Lillith, OTK Rag, Midrange Prog Rag, DIY Titan, and Variax Lillith to the thread.

I overhauled some lists that had been neglected for awhile: Gigoloth Rag, Blood Bending Kara, San Andreas Zirix, Flood Gate (Black Gate update), and Midrange Titan Brome.

As well as some other small tweaks to various other existing decks, check the change log at the bottom for details.

I have been busy lately, and it was easier to just update this, rather then to try and slowly post other threads. I’ve been showing off most of these on my stream lately so I don’t feel they really need their own threads anyways.

[locoblutaxt]

I haven’t played for a whole month (I really needed a break) and I’m glad seeing @deathsadvocate is still there feeding the community with well tested decks.
Just wanted to say this.
I think I’m kinda back now and having this thread for orientation is really a great help (even if not much has changed in the last month).